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Archive of the Special Education Message Board Folder:
Speech Language Disorders - 2
June 23, 1997 - November 28, 1997
FILE NAME:  splang03.txt
450 message - 122 Pages

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-23 14:23:24 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Ours is small school.  The principal sits in on all Planning and Placement
Team meetings.  She is VERY interested in the ongoing programs in our school
and how well they integrate with one another.  She is PART of the educational
team for all children receiving special services.  I realize that this is not
the case in all schools, but it works well in ours.  She listens to the
teachers, specialists, parents, and outside evaluators.  She is very
sensitive to all parties.  So, in our school, it really wouldn't matter if a
parent went to the administrator, because she would simply say, "Let's call a
team meeting."  And in my opinion that is the way it should be.  When there
are educational concerns on anyone's parts they need to be formally discussed
at a Planning and Placement Team table where decisions can be made, programs
changed, recommendations made.

We too consider outside evaluator's recommendations but we consider them as
part of a whole picture.  In some cases, an outside therapist makes a
recommendation not knowing the total program the child is receiving.  For
example, we had a recommendation for oral motor work which I (the speech
path) and the occupational therapist were aleady doing together.  Sometimes
the problem with the outside opinions is that that person doesn't have the
whole picture, they only have information about the discipline for which they
evaluate.  If all they are asked to look at is speech language and are only
given info about speech language, they might not know that the child is
receiving OT, resource or other special education assistance or any other
supplemental program.  It's unfair to the outside evaluator to be in that
position, but it does happen.  We recently had a situation where a parent
hand carried reports to a neurologist, but never took the psychological.  The
1st recommendation was that a full psych be done.  It wasn't the
neurologist's fault that he didn't know that it had already (and recently)
been done.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-23 21:04:12 EST
From:  VBSSLP

It amazes me that parents are generally ready to accept anything a "private"
SLP says lock, stock, and barrel, always assuming that their advice is better
because they paid for it.  It may be and it may not be, but superior
expertise is assumed in the private sector by parents. Sometimes it seems as
if it's a 'them' and 'us' situation and that is unfortunate.  Parents and
professionals both need to remember that 'private' means there are different
criteria, private practice is a business, school SLP's are almost always
between a rock and hard place (best practices, 'adequate' vs optimal, REALITY
of large caseloads....).  There are excellent SLP's in private and public
sector BOTH, and there are advantages and disadvantages to working and
receiving services in both as well.

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-23 21:07:09 EST
From:  VBSSLP

You are so right!!

SUBJECT:  hot topics in our school   Date:  97-06-23 21:26:42 EST
From:  MareCash

Here's a new one. In many schools unfortunatley htere is somewhat of a
division between classroom teachers and  special area teachers. Us special
area teachers( speech, resource, ESL, Reading) just go hit with a good one
today. Apparently the classrom teachers are a bit upset about the
cancellation of classes by special area teachers ( in my opinion they are
just
envious of us for some reason). The end of the year as we all know is  filled
with annual evaluations and CSE meetings. We all are required to attend these
meetings and haev to cancel classes to do it. (Our classroom teachers onthe
other hand get subs in thier rooms to attend  CSE , and also we haev to
schedule CSE meetings around their schedules, because they can't lose their
prep time to attend meeitngs). So, today we get a notice in our mailboxes
that the teachers have requested that all the special area teachers must get
written confirmation form the principal if we are to cancel classes. Now,
whenever I cancel a class for any reason I always put a note in the
principals box so she knows why. The problem here is this. We feel that this
is a two way street, Then any time the classrom teachers do not chose to send
the students to our areas, they should do the same. We have a big meeting
about this tomorrow. Even worse is that these teachers went through our
schools union liason committee for this, and this committee went to the
principal to recommend it. So much for union representation! How do other
school districts handle this? Isn't this silly that professionals cannot
trust each other?  We are trying to explain that we often come to get
children for speech and the class will be gone, so therefore if they are
going to gothrough with this , we deserve the same respect.

SUBJECT:  Re: medical
vs. educational    Date:  97-06-23 23:03:26 EST
From:  Kaseyy

I'm not a speech therapist, but am a music therapist. I wanted to share an
idea from our professional local meetings with other  music therapists. We,
too, have had the problem of outside music therapists recommending levels of
therapy that the school should provide--that were not educationally
necessary. We chose to have several local meetings with our group on the
topic, inviting both school and private therapists. We had extensive
discussions on this topic, and it has helped both sides understand better
what their roles our-whether in the schools, or working privately. Just a
thought.

SUBJECT:  Re: medical vs. educational    Date:  97-06-24 07:47:22 EST
From:  Roskzalex

Music Therapist:  I think yours is a valuable field!  I use a lot of music
with my speech/language kids.  It is surprising how much it helps them to
learn!  I'd like to know more techniques in the music therapy area that would
compliment my speech therapy in the schools.            ---Robyn

SUBJECT:  Re:
outside opinions   Date:  97-06-24 07:52:56 EST
From:  Ratatat

< Clinical therapy and educationally relevent therapy are often very
different things.>

I'm reading this thread on speech therapy, and it's so interesing.  If I may
contribute, I think that this statement is the core of the issue.

Services under Special Education (IDEA) are supposed to be about educational
programming.  It's appropriate that, in school, the SLP will develop a
program around those areas that impact the child's ability to learn, and
express what she/he knows.  That's appropriate.

The private SLP is looking at things from a different perscpective, thus
possibly recommending a slightly different program of therapy for a child.

What it really seems to boil down to is that some of these kids need clinical
speech therapy in additional to educational speech therapy.

Besides, I wonder if the clinical SLPs and the educational SLPs might not
frame some of the same assessments in different terms.

I'm thinking that the problem might be that rather than "them" against "us."
It's more about two paralell view points, not two opposing viewpoints.

Make sense?

SUBJECT:  Re:hot topics in our school   Date:  97-06-24 07:54:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

<The problem here is this. We feel that this is a two way street, Then any
time the classrom teachers do not chose to send the students to our areas,
they should do the same. We have a big meeting about this tomorrow. Even
worse is that these teachers went through our schools union liason committee
for this, and this committee went to the principal to recommend it.>

Sounds like a lot of energy being expended over this one.  Too bad that
everyone can't look at the problems objectively and problem-solve,
creatively, together.

SUBJECT:  SLP Chat   Date:  97-06-24 08:14:43 EST
From:  Ratatat

Just thought I'd let you all know about a SLP chat that's new on AOL.

NEW TIME & LOCATION!
Monday  10 p.m. ET (22:00)
Speech and Language Related Disorders Mutual Support
Co-Facilitators: RMacl49796 & Gina Mikel
Room: Mutual Support Lounge
Keyword: dis  -  Chat Rooms button

SUBJECT:  Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-24 08:20:39 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

You are so right.  Many parents feel that the therapist at the clinic or
hospital has different credentials.  In our area that is just not the case.
I have had parents ask me about my credentials and they were very surprised
that I had my CCC, state licensing, state board of education certification,
23 years of experience, and, school based as well as clinical experience.
The clinic therapists sometimes had their C's and state licensing but less
experience and most of it clinic based.  Where I live, many of the therapists
working at clinics, doing school aged assessment,are doing so to get
experience.  Of course that is not the case for all of them.  Some have never
worked in the schools because jobs are not readily available here.  Many work
part time, or per diem  for a variety of reasons, situations which are not
easily accommodated in a public school job.  Lots of those private folks move
into public school jobs when they become available.  I actually had one
therapist tell me how her perspective changed when she took a school job.
She said that she wished she had had that perspective while working
privately.  Oh well...ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  What's Normal ??   Date:  97-06-24 12:51:25 EST
From:  SBTaylor4

Our 5 yr old daughter doesn't always pronounce words distinctly and has
problems particularly with the "s" sound (snake comes out nake for example).
When she says her last name it sounds more like Tater instead of Taylor
sometimes.  I've tried to work with her some.  Often she crosses herarms and
refuses tocooperate. Now my husband has accused me ofnot trying hardenough
and told meto get herin speech therapy soon as possible sokids inher
kindergarten(starts in August) won't make fun ofher.  Well, I can't get even
an evaluationanywhere  until July 23rd!!!   Help!  Anyone know of a tape or
something that canhelpme??? SusanT.

SUBJECT:  Re:hot topics in our school   Date:  97-06-24 14:10:45 EST
From:  Lmazzola

<<In many schools unfortunatley htere is somewhat of a division between
classroom teachers and  special area teachers.>>

It's no wonder parents are having difficulty getting appropriate services for
their kids - the teachers can't even work together. I'm not "bashing" this
poster, but merely making an observation, based upon what she said AND my own
experience with this very situation.

There does not seem to be any "common goal." Everyone is looking out for
themselves or the bottom line. In the mean time, all this time, energy and
money is being wasted and the kids are not getting the services that they
need. And if a parent tries to "look into" the situation  i.e. ask questions,
observe the program, etc. or heaven forbid - question the appropriateness of
the program - they are labeled a trouble maker. IMHO.

SUBJECT:  Re: outside
opinions   Date:  97-06-24 16:19:04 EST
From:  VBSSLP

Parents may sometimes come away from either the clinical or school based SLP
not completely understanding what their recommendations are as well.  I don't
always think that is the SLP's fault.  Many times people hear suggestions out
of context from the big picture that is being presented, especially if it
suggests that they haven't 'gotten enough' or received whatever.  Also,
hindsight is 20/20-'This child should have been receiving_____therapy
etc..."

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-24 19:05:00 EST
From:  DaysOfPooh

Ratatat ,

Youre last post about clinical speech therapy and educationally relevant
therapy posed some very interesting ideas . My question however is , where do
we draw a line as to what is considered educationally relevant ? Our daughter
is 6 with a severe speech disorder and receives speech tx 5 times a week in
school . ( bless her SLP )  But how is it determined what is educationally
relevant ? What exactly is the definition of educationally relevant therapy
or is that something left to be interpreted by each individual or school
district ? ( Honestly I dont know and would like to ! ) Clinical speech
therapists have said our daughter needed tx 2x's a week but her school
therapist felt 5 times was more like it and I will not argue with her !! : )
The first school SLP that worked with our daughter in Preschool seemed to her
problems were no big deal , thankfully after being with a new SLP in
kindergarten ,this SLP saw that our daughters speech affected her whole day
at school as our daughter would not speak to anyone except the SLP , thus
came the recommendation of 5x a week . I have the utmost respect for our SLP
and would not question her recommendations for the most part and if I did , I
know she is more than willing to sit down and talk . I would trust her more
than I would trust someone who just met my daughter , tested her and made
recommendations .

Could someone explain the difference between educationally relevant therapy
and clinical therapy for me , I guess I thought the goals of the two would be
the same .

Thankyou
Nancy


SUBJECT:  Re: educationally relevant   Date:  97-06-24 19:20:00 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Educationally relevant services are those which will make learning and
progress at school appropriate for a child.  For example, a child who is
having difficulty learning new concepts, stating ideas or the like would
probably have difficulty expressing and learning what is taught in the
classroom.  Likewise, a child with unintelligible speech would have
difficulty making themselves understood.  In addition, both groups *might*
have difficulty learning to read and write easily.

Clinically relevant might be a child who has oral motor (mouth movement)
difficulties but has fine speech (I've seen that..).  That child might have
difficulty eating, but if speaking is fine the problem might not relate to
learning.  Children with vocal nodules or other physiological or medical
conditions might need speech services but not educational services because
they are doing well in school.

As a school based SLP, I always am asked to tell how a problem affects a
child's learning, or has the potential to affect learning (e.g. preschoolers
who have multiple misarticulations).  When learning is affected I am expected
to provide unified services with the classroom teachers, special education
teachers and anyone else who will be working with the child.

There are a number of touchy situations.  Tongue thrust is one...Is that an
educational issue or a medical (or orthodontic) one?  In our school district
we will provide a home program and monitor exercises for a short period for
this.  Voice problems are another...medical or not?  Stuttering...??? I have
worked with stutterers who were National Merit Scholars.  Is that
educationally relevant?  It's confusing and the justifications for services
vary.  Remember too that clinical folks ONLY see the students for therapy,
not in a classroom setting.  If I were working in a clinic I would certainly
want to see a child more than twice a week.  However, in my school, the
reality is the team members are working with the child 30 hours a week.  We
try to incorporate our individual goals into everyday situations.  That's
what life and learning are all about.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-24 20:33:55 EST
From:  TLVAIL

You're right- the views may be parallel and a child may need both clinical
and educational therapy-  The problem, as I see it, is that sometimes parents
expect clinical therapy in a school setting and that is sometimes because a
"clinical" therapist has told them it is what a child "needs".  I am a
private practitioner who contracts with the schools so I see both sides of
the issue.  What I would suggest is that if a parent comes in and requests
that a private practioner write a report saying a child "needs" anything in
particular, that private therapist should offer to join the parent at the
next staffing and serve as a member of the team.  I think our role as SLPs in
the schools must stay educationally relevent which sometimes (not always)
requires a shift from the traditional, clinical model.

SUBJECT:  In/out school   Date:  97-06-25 05:57:04 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Yesterday I read an Associated Press article that stated that the Supreme
Court had overruled an 1985 decision with regard to the provision of remedial
services in parocial schools.  In 1985 it was determined that remedial
services (the article specifically referred to Title I) could not be provided
IN parochial schools.  Now it seems that those services can be provided in
parochial schools.  As an public school SLP who worked in parochial schools
prior to 1985, I know that this ruling was extended to special services and
wonder if the new ruling will apply to special services or is confined to
Title I services which are not special education services.  Does anyone know?
ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:In/out school   Date:  97-06-25 15:35:09 EST
From:  MareCash

I have no idea about the answe rto Shelly's question, but would be interested
in the answer. We haev a little girl headed for Kindergarten next year - she
has Down's Syndrome and gets Speech, OT,PT, and will qualify for resource
room. The parochial school her parents want do not haev any of this. Does
this mean we will have to provide the services. I'd like to hear about your
experience with this in the past Shelley. I can;t imagine, with a caseload of
77, how I will find time to travel. More upsetiing will be the splintered
nature of this little gal's rpogram. All these people coming in and out, and
no one with special ed experience with her all day.

SUBJECT:  Re:word endings    Date:  97-06-25 16:26:24 EST
From:  MirlaG

<<He had progressed to the point where  he was using these endings in
conversational speech on a pretty regular basis.His speech deteriorates when
upset or very excited which is understandable for his  "level" at this point,
I guess.>>

There are a couple of reasons your son's speech deteriorates. First, it
doesn't sound like your son had fully integrated the sounds into his
conversational speech. If he hasn't he will forget to use them when he is
emotionally charged.  Second, his rate of speech may increase when he is
excited or upset so that he has a hard time articulating.  As a result
consonants are dropped, especially ending consonants.

I would continue to work on integrating the target sounds into your sons
conversational speech.  I would not add any more sounds until he uses the
target sounds all the time.



SUBJECT:  Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-25 16:58:43 EST
From:  MirlaG

There are many of us in private practice who switched out of the public
school setting because we knew we could do more for children.  I have no one
telling me how many contact hours I must meet each week.  Therefore, I do not
have to see 2,3, or 4 children together thereby diluting therapy for each
individual child.  Children seen on an individual basis progress quicker .
Also, as a private practioner parents are an important part of the
therapeutic process.  They are given homework for carryover and
reinforcement.  Many sit in on the sessions.

Recommendations made by school systems are not always in the best interests
of the child.   Lack of funds is always an issue for the public schools and
their educational decisions are motivated by money, money, money, or lack of.
This goes for special education as well as regular services.  Anyone who says
otherwise is unfair to parents.

I have two children in public schools and know that the education of children
does not take precedence over money and politics.  The concern about children
ranks somewhere near the bottom.  But I also know that school systems do a
fairly decent job educating children.  However, and I know I will get a lot
of flack for saying this, but I would not rely solely on the public schools
if my children needed additional help or resources.
Mirla



SUBJECT:  Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-25 18:20:41 EST
From:  TAWhit

Mirla- I agree that SCHOOL SYSTEMS (as in finances and politics) are not
always in the best interest of each individual child. But...most of the
people who work with the children are. And I must disagree that children
progress more quickly with individual therapy. Maybe some. There's something
to be said for use of peers and natural environments. This is definitely a
loaded issue and I will stop there.

Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:My 6 year old.   Date:  97-06-25 19:15:06 EST
From:  WYOBSKT

I have a delemma that I could use unbias opinion on.  My son has static
encephalopathy, and just turned 6 on the 22nd of june.  I am in a school
system that takes childre 0-4 in the Home based type program, then at 5 they
must attend the public school system to receive services.  I had moved from a
preschool language based program that went from 0-6 year olds.  What we did
was go ahead and send him to the Kindergarten ISEC class (self-contained).
there were 13 kids with varying degree of disabilities.  My son's lies most
significantly with language.  He has a liberator and is taught some sign at
school.    Here is my delema,
The "team" thought he was appropriate to attend regular ed 1st grade for 1/2
a day, then drop back to the ISEC room to receive his services for next
year..  I do not feel he is 1'st grade material in anyway or fashion.  My
thought was that he needed a regular-ed kindrgarten experience before jumping
into the 1st grade.  They called it retention and they didn't like to do that
to kids.  I don't get it.  Where is the retention.  To go from the ISEC class
where ther is constant disruptions from behavior problems to "meeting other
kids' needs" (bless their hearts), into a class room of "typically developed"
learners is going to be a step up.  I felt we were really missing an
important part of learning if he didn't experience that social, and lower
academic field of learning before we sent him off to that 1st grade class
room.  I personally feel that he will be out of ISEC all together by his
"real" first grade (98/99 school year.)
I made the decision, after lots of prayer, to call another meeting and have
him changed into that kindergarten class room.  they can call it what they
want but, there is no way i'd have even sent my typically developed son at
such a young age to 1sst grade let alone my guy who has maybe 10 audible word
in his vocab.  Thanks for your opinion.  Lambast me if its constructive
please.  I don't want to be one of those moms who wont let go.  I just felt
this was right.
Am I missing something important that I just don't have the eucational
background to know?

SUBJECT:  Re:My 6 year old.   Date:  97-06-26 07:43:04 EST
From:  AV715

The fashionable theory lately is that noone should be kept back, since
everyone develops at his own pace, and there will be varying degrees of
maturity in every group.  One principal said " we can handle them no matter
where they are in maturity." Sure,  but can THEY handle YOU, sir ?

Sometimes I think they just want to avoid another year of educational
expenses for your kid who costs a bit more to the system.

You are right, by my lights, that your son could use more time and a more
gradual transition.  What could he possibly gain by being "hurried up ?"


SUBJECT:  Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-26 07:54:46 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

As a public school SLP, I, too, give carryover assignments to children to do
at home.  I also give carryover assignments to paraeducators and teachers to
do at school.  I have to tell you that the parents I work with usually do a
great job doing the carryover work.  But some don't.  I had one instance
years ago, a little tongue thrust guy, whose parents just couldn't do that
work.  In the summer, THEY chose to go to a private therapist at their own
expense.  They did the homework.  They were paying $60 a session.  I often
wondered if they had been paying for their public school services through
something other than tax dollars if they would have been more vested in their
son's services.  By the way, I knew the therapist and we were using the SAME
program.  I feel that private therapists are doing a good job providing the
services that they provide to students.  I particularly like the ones who at
least get input from the schools and try to intergrate and work with us.
Unfortunately, some just march to their own drummer and holistically that is
not good for the child.  It also pits professional against professional in a
situation that needs cooperation.  The child should always come first.  And
p.s. in some situations, individual therapy is NOT appropriate.  When I teach
pragmatics and social communication the child needs a group of kids, not just
me.  In the school, I have the option of choosing a classroom buddy to teach
these skills.  How does that happen in individual therapy?  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:
Re:What's Normal ??   Date:  97-06-26 07:59:16 EST
From:  Roskzalex

It is usually much easier to have an outside person work with your child.
But what you can do, is not make it seem like work.  One idea I would try
would be to just have her listen to 15 words that start with sp (for
example).  Don't have her repeat them, just listen.  Point out to her that
there is a tiny snake sound at the beginning.  Then when you are setting the
table, for example, when she says, "poon".  You say "spoon" and suddenly get
the brilliant idea that this is one of those special words.  As you say the
's' part, draw your finger across your lips so the idea of a longer sound is
not only audible, but visible to her.  Then if she can say it, that can be a
special word that she learned how to say.  Do this type of activity for other
s-blend sounds (st, sk, sw, sm, sn).  Sometimes kids can get the hang of it
by just having it pointed out to them in a more formal manner.
For the /l/ sound in Taylor, well, that is harder, because it is in the
middle and the tongue taps in the same place for /l/ as it does for /t/.
That's probably why she says /tater/.  Does she say /l/ at the beginning of
words?  If not, that would be a better place to start.  After listening to a
list of words (you can even think of them in the car while you're driving)
then have her try to just put her tongue up and down inside of her mouth.
You can play in front of the bathroom mirror and make all sorts of funny
faces, including the tongue up and down (in a silent /l/).  Laugh about it
and have fun.  Then sing her favorite song with la la la la la la...... If
she doesn't get her tongue tip up, do it in front of the mirror- or just show
her how you do it.  If she is stubborn, after you show her, she may practice
on her own, if she thinks it's fun enough.  Those are just some very
beginning, basic ideas.
I have one question for you to think about.  Does she seem to know if you say
a word wrong?  If you repeat a word the way she says it, does she protest,
knowing it is wrong, or just accept it.  If she protests, she can hear the
difference, but not make it yet.  If she doesn't hear the difference, then
working on listening to lots of words that have that same sound in them  may
help her.  Let her know what to listen to.               Robyn

SUBJECT:
Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-26 08:18:52 EST
From:  MareCash

I agee with Sheley and Terry. I have worked in both school and clinical
settings and they both have their own types of goals. In the clinical
setting, individual attention was the mode of therapy. It was appropriate
depending on the disability. In the school setting, the big push is for
integration. There are some children on mycaseload who do get individual
therapy, but for the most part it is small group. What better way to have
children learn - from interaction with their peers whom they model. When I
have a group working on the s sound, it is much more beneficial for the
children as a whole to hear each other, the sound is more ingrained. Also,
the goal is not for gaining language ina one-one setting - we want to
transfer these skills to the classroom setting - group work is necessary. I
also give homework, write quarterly progress reports, and encourage parent
particiaption.Parents are welcome at any time to come to therapy.

SUBJECT:
Re:My 6 year old.   Date:  97-06-26 08:36:18 EST
From:  Willsons

I agree with your assessment and decision.

I would ask questions. Try to get an clearer understanding of how/why the
school arrived at their decision. Have they given you the complete picture?
Is there a reason behind their decision that they are reluctant to verbalize?
. . .  or have they not really thought it through, and need their thinking
redirected?

SUBJECT:  My 6 year old   Date:  97-06-26 09:39:27 EST
From:  WYOBSKT

Andy was split between Teachers during his K-ISEC class because of
overcrowding.  One was a transitional type teacher (not sure she enjoyed any
aspect of the job) at the end of the year.  The other haas been doing this
same job for 5 or 6.  She was one who was in disagreement untill I mention
that even though Andy seemed socially prepared in the ISEC class, We don't
know what he will be like in the regular class.  (My fear is that if we
expose him too abrubtly, he'll loose this beautiful sensitive, calm, &
trusting disposition)  She was "relieved" that it wasn't because I was afraid
of the acedemics of the 1st grade for him).  The person I had the most
trouble getting through to was the principle.  She may not sign the IEP
(which is fine) because of the changes that I wanted.
I have made the adjustment that my son will have trouble throughout his life,
however I am still very anxious about his education as we are military and
move every 3 years.  Sending him to 1st grade before he is ready is realllly
going to have a major impact on the next school he goes to.  I'm just trying
to keep his head above water (so to speak) Thanks for your replies.

SUBJECT:
Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-06-27 14:58:49 EST
From:  MirlaG

Terrie, Shelley, and Marianne,

Thanks for your comments.

I have to agree that when parents pay out of pocket they tend to more
involved in their child's therapy.  Although the majority of my clients pay
out of pocket, I will on occasion accept third party payment. I have noticed
that it is these parents who are the least involved in their children's
therapy.

Mirla



SUBJECT:  Re:job wanted -SLP's   Date:  97-06-27 20:11:17 EST
From:  LYates SLP

HI GEORGIA SLP
   Savannah-chatham county is a big district with a huge speech program.
There is a college AASU that trains SLPs at the bachelor's level.  You
wouldn't have a problem searching for a job there, they need a few every
year, and if you have your CCCs, then you will get the job over these AASU
students.  Their program, even masters, is not ASHA certified, yet!!. Good
Luck. Also, try columbia county, near Augusta, or Effingham, Liberty, Bryan
near Savannah.

SUBJECT:  Re:collaboration   Date:  97-06-27 20:17:42 EST
From:  LYates SLP

there is a great book for the SLP. Language Lessons in the classroom. I used
it during teaching a learning disabled K-3 class 30 min. twice a week.  The
kids loved it, and I had fun too!  Good Luck!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Students in school
speech   Date:  97-06-28 00:01:34 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Interesting how some SLPs have switched from the school setting to the
clinical/hospital/private practice - the "outside world".   How does that
help the children who receive services in the schools?   Many of my students
would not receive any help if not for the school setting.   Some of the
parents don't have insurance, are too concerned about working and keeping
their jobs, and/or can't take off from work so much....   Sometimes a school
SLP does more than Speech, but also acts as a caring adult (buys snack,
barrettes needed for long hair, milk money.....and listens) to some students
who need some attention not received at home.
     Money was the prime concern MirlaG stated....true for the
administrators, BUT if a child needs something extra, and we, the team, write
it into the IEP, then it becomes the responsibility of the district....  I
have a code of ethics too, and do what is important for the child.....no, I
don't want to waste money, but if something worthwhile is needed, then it is
written down....
     What a shame that SLPs feel the need to cut down another professional IN
THE SAME FIELD, it would be great if we could collaborate for the benefit of
the child :) , no matter where the child is seen for therapy!

SUBJECT:
Re:Students in school speech   Date:  97-06-28 22:02:56 EST
From:  MareCash

WWHiker got to the point. We school clinicians have so many facets to our
jobs. This year I fought tooth and nail with administration to get a Dynamyte
for one of my students. My administration balked at the price ($8,000.00) and
wanted to try a different device. I really went to bat for my student because
I care. We all know that in the many chosen careers out there, there aer some
people who give their all, and others who do enough to just get by - no
matter what their job setting happens to be. I think we should all be giving
each other support. A better understanding of each other's role in the
different settings is the key.

SUBJECT:  Re: NY school setting   Date:  97-06-29 16:31:19 EST
From:  MsLaura195

As far as I know NY's guidelines are 65 per therapist, no more than 5 in a
group.

SUBJECT:  Re: outside opinions   Date:  97-06-30 01:59:32 EST
From:  Beanie7783

What I think Ratatat means is that there are different ways to reach the same
result...."more" is not always "better".

SUBJECT:  Re:stuttering - help!   Date:  97-06-30 20:18:27 EST
From:  WenPrater

I am an slp in a preschool for special needs children most of my experience
is in birth to five.  I read your concerns about stuttering and I understand
that much of your concern is revolved around the family life.  I think it is
wonderful that you feel so strongly about helping those children.  The place
where I work is very family friendly and we do everything we can to help the
family as well as the child.  Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that we
are an advocate for our children.. The parent may not be the ideal parent but
please remember that you are making a diffenence just by being involved.
Please keep up the therapy and support the kids in every way you can and they
will be better off by just knowing you.

SUBJECT:  Re:My 6 year old.   Date:  97-06-30 21:01:36 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Good job mom!!  You know your son better than anyone-  YOu listened to the
adivise of others, thought  and prayed and made a decision in the best
interest of your son.  Good work!!

SUBJECT:  K Lesson Plans   Date:  97-07-02 18:20:04 EST
From:  MareCash

I just got a grant for a kindergarten program for next year. I will be going
into each class to integrate my goals with their classroom activities. I am
looking for any ideas for language lessons for butterflies, apples, pumpkins,
bears. Also - does anyone have a lesson plan or a resource for teaching
elementary ages about hearing and hearing loss? I have two students in 4th
grade coming in with phonic ears and would like to do soemthing in their
classes. I also just received a Dynamyte for one of my special ed students
and would love to hear of other SLP experiences with this or simialr devices
and ways to integrate subjects, etc. Thanks!

SUBJECT:  Orton Gillingham Method    Date:  97-07-02 21:23:46 EST
From:  BSCastle

I am looking for any information regarding the Orton Gillingham Method of
teaching.  Any papers on how it is taught, and what are the theories and
principles.  Any research data on success rates as well.

SUBJECT:  Re:Orton
Gillingham Method    Date:  97-07-03 07:08:20 EST
From:  Mars000210

The web site address for the Orton Gillingham Society is as follows ods.org/

You may be able to acess the informtion you want through them. Barb

SUBJECT:
Re:Bilingual services   Date:  97-07-03 21:31:51 EST
From:  SPeters680

Hi, I'm new but interested in your question.  I think I would post/addendeum/
exceptions to the rule when it comes to grammatic structures of Hispanic
cultures then look for consistency within their rules.  If consistency did
not follow, look for tests that accurately test ion both english/spanish
cultures.  It is a touch call but I would be very very conservative befor
admitting to a label as a professional.


SUBJECT:  Re:stuttering - help!   Date:  97-07-03 21:36:52 EST
From:  SPeters680

Hi, I am a professional SLP and interested in your question/comment.  Your
approach sounds correct to me.  I often find word retrevial and subtle
language impairments with children who stutter. There is ASHA research on
adults but I don't remember the reference.  Sarah Peters, Va. SLP.
I

SUBJECT:  Re:stuttering - help!   Date:  97-07-03 21:44:45 EST
From:  SPeters680

I am an SLP intersted in stuttering too.  I agree that stress adds to
disorganized language which is usually present in young stutters.  Perhaps a
video of child-parent interaction may identify some dysfunctional
characteristics (if parent gives permission).  If there is a divorce going on
though, it is likely that she/he may be looking for a reason to accuse the
partner of neglect/avoidance/etc. with the child.  You are a small part of
the situation. Don't allow yourself to be responsible for the problems of the
child. O.K.?  Sarah Peters, SLP-CCC

SUBJECT:  Assistive Technology   Date:  97-07-03 21:53:16 EST
From:  SPeters680

Hello, I am a doctoral student ( and practiciing clinician) at a large
university and have opted to pursue a dissertation on assistive technology
issues and changes in the State of Virginia.  I am interested in other states
progress (or lack thereof) in providing services, service delivery models,
written IEP plans, and funding of devices. Please contact me with your
state's position and service delivery model.  I would love for you to see
into the future and predict what would happen to your state in the next five
years.    Thanks, Sarah Peters

SUBJECT:  Social stories /prag. probs   Date:  97-07-05 08:41:57 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Does anyone have or can anyone tell me where to get a hold of the "Social
stories" set of materials or any other materialsfor working on pragmatic
issues? Would like to order some for our clinic when I return in the fall(am
on maternity leave)...thanx...Regina

SUBJECT:  Re:Social stories /prag. probs   Date:  97-07-05 16:03:32 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Here is the information for social stories/activities called "Social Star"
The subheading is "Conflict Resolution and Community Interaction Skills".
The company is Thinking Publications,  and the FAX number is 1 800/ 828-8885.


The address is 424 Galloway Street, P.O.Box 163,   Eau Claire, WI,
54702-0163.

The  phone number is 1-800-225 GROW    (4769)

Hope this helps!     Anne

SUBJECT:  Early intervention   Date:  97-07-05 22:00:57 EST
From:  Nel Gab Er

My child is 2 years 2 months old right now and speaks very little
intelligibly.  Receptively, he understands very well and can follow 2 step
directions.  But, I am getting really concerned about expressive language.  I
have 3 other children who all spoke in simple sentences by age 2.  He calls
all my other children "Ba", his bottle "Ba".  He does say "do(long o)" for
donut and "nan" for nanny and ma and da and done.  That's it basically.
Should I get him involved in some kind of early intervention speech therapy
or should I wait another year and see if he develops expressive language?  A
speech therapist once told me by the age of six language should be intact.  I
don't want to wait that long if I can nip it in the bud now or at least begin
developing some of his language skills.  Please advise if you are a speech
therapist.

SUBJECT:  Re:Early intervention   Date:  97-07-06 09:02:07 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Contact the school in your area and find out about early intervention
services in your state.  They are available for all children with suspected
learning difficulties and speech is certainly one.  The school should be able
to give you the correct contact person.

SUBJECT:  Re:K Lesson Plans   Date:  97-07-07 20:16:55 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Dear Marecash,
Congrats on the grant!  I know you will enjoy your time in the classroom-  I
try to use as many "toys", puppets, and songs in my classroom lessons.  I
also use a great deal of signing.  I typically start with categorizing - a
great song in "More songs for language learning" Comm.Skill builders.  Then,
as each month brings new themes, we can categorize new vocabulary.  I have a
core set of vocabulary that is set around the theme then add syntax and
morphology that seem to fit.  For example, if the theme is "All about Me" we
work on emotions, adjectives of taste, smell, touch, and Pronouns so..
sentence targets are "She/he is happy" or "It is sharp" -  You'll come up
with great ideas by planning with your teachers and your "library" will grow
over the years.
Hearing- I did a fun presentation with a slinky for sound waves, a plastic
soda bottle with the bottom cut off and plastic wrap placed on with a rubber
band for the middle ear.  I sucked air out to show what the eardrum looks
like when you start to get an ear infection and blew on it to show how it
looks when the ear is filled with fluid-  The kids seemed to understand- even
K.
Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!
Tracy

SUBJECT:  Re:Social stories /prag. probs   Date:  97-07-07 20:23:05 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Regina- Carol Gray writes the social story books- 2140 Bauer Road, Jenison,
MI 49428- Ph: [phone] It's good stuff!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Social stories /prag.
pro   Date:  97-07-08 08:31:56 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Thanks guys, I now have two referencesto check(and possibly order) this fall
when I go back to work...the interest is both personal and spurred by the
fact that we don't tend to carry these materials in our office.Also, the CAPD
listserve has had some parents and professionals writing in about a problem
in recoginizing subtle and non-verbal cues in children with CAPD which can
cause some interpersonnel problems....Regina

SUBJECT:  Developmental Verbal
Dysprax   Date:  97-07-08 20:57:19 EST
From:  MLynne7923

Help!  I have a three year old student who has been diagnosed with
developmental verbal dyspraxia by a physician.  No SLP was involved in the
workup at a major hospital that specializes in testing young children.  This
youngster has made great strides in verbalizing and using short phrases and
one or two syllable words.  He is now able to sit at and work for one whole
session. Mom is seeing progress and Dad is seeing very little.  I have been
doing ongoing assessment of this little boy during our sessions (30 Mins.)
The parents are happy with a dx, however, I am happier with  seeing little
growth spurts.  Again, as in your previous discussions, the doctor has made a
recommendation that this child  should have more sessions per week and
parents like for their son to work 1x1.  In the fall, I see this as a
hindrance at times.  I would like to be able to include him in some groups
for role modeling.  Does anyone out there have any references that may be
helpful to me for more techniques?  This little guy is likea sponge right now
because he is able to use "words" to communicate!!!!!   ps  This is a public
school setting that I am speaking about.  Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:Early intervention   Date:  97-07-09 09:18:47 EST
From:  MirlaG

I generally do not recommend formal speech and language therapy for children
under the age of three.  Rather, I prefer to work with the parents on the
various ways they can stimulate speech and language development at home.
With counselling many parents can help children this age a great deal.  Your
child may still need formal speech and language therapy at age three, but you
may be able to jump-start him before that.  Ask friends, pediatrician,
preschool director or teacher to recommend a speech pathologist or check the
yellow pages.

SUBJECT:  Re:K Lesson Plans   Date:  97-07-09 13:21:55 EST
From:  Boulevard

How fun!   I'm taking a leave of absence this year, and one of the things I
will miss the most is team-teaching.  Last year I TT with a 2nd grade teacher
& one spec. ed classroom.
 As far as your units, there are lots of things you can do --- I'd love to
correspond with you about them.  I've team-taught for the last 6 years, and
had a ball doing it!  During my favorite year, I had 45 min. per day in a
primary MR classroom & we did it all !  We started by identifying that we'd
do an alphabet letter per week.  Here's how the week went:  "A:"
Monday - introduce the letter & show pictures starting with that letter.
Talk about names of kids in the room, etc. that begin with that letter.  Make
the letter in the air, then in sand, then in clay.
Tuesday - do some type of science/concept activity related to the letter.
For example, with apples, we went through the growth of apples from seed to
tree, etc.
Wednesday - whole language - read a story about apples, illustrated our
favorite part of the story
Thursday - math - cutting apples in HALF, cutting the apples in a horizontal
plane to show the star of seeds, weighing apples
Friday - craft activity (ex. making apple prints) and cooking activity -
making applesauce.
I also sent home a newsletter on Friday that told parents what we'd done,
what they might help with for next week (we need students to bring a food
item, eg.), and suggestions for enhancing what we'd done --EX.   Play a game
where you go Around or Above  things,   talk about Aunts,  eat an Artichoke,
read one of the books about Arthur, read about Animals, practice Asking
questions.
PUMPKINS - sequencing using simple illustrations of carving, making pumpkin
seeds, making a pie, seriation by size, etc...
BEARS- have the kids bring a bear from home.  Measure them, chart the
lengths, characteristics, etc...Read bear stories, act out Goldilocks & the 3
Bears,  Listening for Basic Concepts All Year Round - LinguiSystems, has
great stuff with bears.
I'd love to chat more!  Nancy

SUBJECT:  Fast Forword   Date:  97-07-09 19:10:46 EST
From:  SPUDSPOUSE

My 4-year-old son has mild PDD-NOS and we are about to try Fast Forword. His
ability to stay tuned in to computer games is excellent, he's a great mouser,
he's pretty bright and beginning to read. His language can be impressive and
interesting, but it is somewhat delayed and noticably odd. Articulation is
essentially age appropriate, but he is slow to respond, has problems with
prosody and struggles with lengthy or challenging conversation, especially in
a classroom setting. He also has loud and high-pitched verbal stims at the
most inopportune times. I'm looking for feedback from SLPs, parents and
teachers about successes (or failures) they have experienced with this
program. Any words of advice or caution for my little guy? Has anyone had
insurance pay for this program? For those of you who know a lot about this
program, does it seem to be an appropriate intervention for us to try? I
welcome all opinions on this subject. Thanks!

SUBJECT:  Re:Early intervention   Date:  97-07-10 06:56:38 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I agree that "therapy" for the under three group should be play based, and
should include ways to make the environment communication friendly.  Still
and all, many states have 0-3 set ups that will address these concerns at no
cost to families.

SUBJECT:  Re:Early intervention   Date:  97-07-10 16:24:24 EST
From:  Barberent

I am an SLP working with an Early Intervention program. I definitely agree
that early intervention at the onset of suspected problems is beneficial.
Most EI providers know how to work with both the child and the family to
encourage language. I just worked with a 2 year old boy who also had little
intelligible speech. He ended up having tubes inserted in both ears and
impacted wax removed (the wax was so impacted that they had to wait until he
was under to remove it).  He also was a heavy drooler- he had his tonsils and
adenoids removed also. Within 1 month of surgery , this little guy was
speaking in 3-4 word phrases and the drooling had stopped. Without early
intervention, Mom never would have investigated th "ear" aspect - this little
boy wasn't hearing!

SUBJECT:  "Swallow Right" program   Date:  97-07-10 16:37:59 EST
From:  Jesskoot

This program for tongue-thrust is marketed by Communication Skill Builders.
I have used portions of it and the kids seem to like it; the excercises must
be practiced at home and therefore the parents must be commited to work with
the child as well as reinforce appropriately.  It does give a nice simple
overview of what the problem is and what can be done (for parents).

SUBJECT:  "f"
advice   Date:  97-07-10 19:16:46 EST
From:  CP SLP

In our hospital based practice, our pediatric therapist is having a difficult
time with a child and /f/ articulation.  He consistently protrudes his tongue
at the end of the production stopping the continuant.  He may achieve the
labial-dental position but is unable to continue the sound due to the tongue
up-forward position.  She has tried depressing the tongue with a tongue
blade; however this is too intrusive and the child cannot generalize the down
tongue position when the tongue blade is not there.  We are looking for other
ideas on how to break this difficult pattern.  We were thinking of working on
velar consonants /k/g/ and seeing if that could help.  Any suggestions would
be greatly appreciated.  Reply to the board or e-mail CPSLP

SUBJECT:  Re:"f"
advice   Date:  97-07-10 23:31:55 EST
From:  Jtkita

Have you tried having the child blow continuously and stop on command.  Does
the child protrude his tongue when stopping?  If not, the child can practice
producing the continuous airflow and stopping on command or move from the
continuous flow to a vowel.  Then gradually transition to the labial-dental
position with continuous air flow and stop on command or move to a final
vowel sound moving straight into syllables. Mirror practice moving from /f/
to a wide open mouth position might be fun for the child.     jt

SUBJECT:
Re:"f" advice   Date:  97-07-11 07:42:48 EST
From:  Barberent

I usually have the child really place their upper teeth on their lower lip
and press hard ("bite"). Have him sustain the/f/ in this manner, then
progress to syllables in which the tooth-lip position does not have to change
much /fi/, /fu/.See if this helps- it can be a long process before the idea
really connects and is generalized.

SUBJECT:  Re:K Lesson Plans   Date:  97-07-13 13:58:51 EST
From:  CarolO5940

<< am looking for any ideas for language lessons for butterflies, apples,
pumpkins, bears>>

Marianne...I have lots and lots of ideas for activities at this level for
these themes.  If you're still interested, e-mail me and I'll get them out to
you.

Carol

SUBJECT:  Re:Social stories /prag. probs   Date:  97-07-13 14:01:05 EST
From:  CarolO5940

<<<Does anyone have or can anyone tell me where to get a hold of the "Social
stories" set of materials or any other materialsfor working on pragmatic
issues? Would like to order some for our clinic when I return in the fall(am
on maternity leave)...thanx...Regina>>>

I have this info. at school and can get it this week if you still need it.
E-mail me if you want it still!

Carol

SUBJECT:  Re:"f" advice   Date:  97-07-13 21:27:37 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Try having him blow packing p-nuts with an /h/ then a /f/-  next, blow with
the sounds together/f..h/- make a game to see how far he can blow the p-nut
across the table.

SUBJECT:  Re:"f" advice   Date:  97-07-14 07:35:32 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

For production of the f sound, I use an exaggerated placement.  I have the
child "bite" their lower lip with their upper teeth.  When I get good
production, I have the child try words or syllables with the f at the
beginning only.  Then, I have them hold that f for a while and separate it
from the rest of the word...f.f.f.f....at (fat).  I have found this to be
most successful with children who are over 4 years old, as they understand
the directions.

SUBJECT:  Carol05940   Date:  97-07-14 15:34:09 EST
From:  MareCash

I tried emailing you nad I get the message " not a known AOL user."

SUBJECT:
Re:outside opinions   Date:  97-07-14 15:59:20 EST
From:  VBSSLP

I've been out of town and this topic may be all finished up here, but I
wanted to add  one more thing...I really agree with the points that have been
made from both points of view.(clinical vs. school therapy)  I think one
thing that hits home with me is, sometimes, in some situations in the public
school setting there is the issue of parental involvement...It's free, hey
it's even mandated by law, so there does exist the attitude  at times that
some parents feel absolved of responsibility...to pay for private services if
that's what their child needs, to buy an AAC device if that's what they need,
etc.. I'm a mom and an SLP, and even though I would love to be able to
provide every child with top of the line services, individual attention,
technology, etc... I find myself thinking "if that were my child and I felt
so strongly, I would take responsibility to get these things for him, and if
the school systems can't/won't provide it I'll do whatever it takes"  I also
think about my own children and my responsibility towards their regular
education achievements....I don't presume to expect complete achievement for
them without a lot of my assistance.  We do have responsibility to complain
and make things better through change, but generally the individual who has
direct contact with the child is not the one who needs to be attacked.

SUBJECT:
Re:"f" advice   Date:  97-07-14 22:51:05 EST
From:  MirlaG

If I understand your post, the problem is that the tongue is obstructing the
airflow.  If this is the case, then I would suggest the therapist show the
child where he should place his tongue and have him practice that position
until he can easily do it when requested.  Then I would have him keep the
correct position as you ask him to open and close his mouth.  If he
understands, then his tongue will not move when he moves from an open to
closed mouth position and back again.  Next I would have him bite his lower
lip as his tongue remains in position.  From there, move on to tongue in
correct position with teeth and lips in "f" position, have him open mouth and
then back to the previous position.  Once he can do this last step a few
times he should be ready to try producing "f".  Good luck.  Mirla

SUBJECT:
Re:"f" advice   Date:  97-07-15 14:34:16 EST
From:  DaysOfPooh

Our daughter has a terrible time with the "f" sound . Her SLP has taught her
that her teeth belong on her lower lip and that if she puts her finger up by
her mouth she should feel air . We can give her a visual reminder by placing
our finger by our mouth to remind her . She has trouble reproducing the
correct sound in connected speech unless we slow her down but it is still
progress !!!!

Nancy

SUBJECT:  Oro-Motor Workshop?   Date:  97-07-15 17:53:13 EST
From:  DebAnn07

I've heard that Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson will be putting on a workshop in
Portland, Or. sometime in August.  If this is so I would really appreciate
knowing exactly when it will be held and where.
You can E-mail me at Debann07 if anyone knows.
Thanks,  Debbie

SUBJECT:  Re:Oro-Motor Workshop?   Date:  97-07-21 07:44:09 EST
From:  JLFCates

For information on Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson you can access her Website at:
members.aol.com/oromotorsp/index.htm.  I  attended one of her classes in June
and it was great.

Janet

SUBJECT:  Re:Speech Delay   Date:  97-07-21 21:23:39 EST
From:  Shazi123

you are intitled to free speech and language sevices through the national
government
call your local school district to find out how to go about having your child
tested
so they can begin therapy RIGHT AWAY!!!


SUBJECT:  Too late   Date:  97-07-22 20:55:41 EST
From:  MAVAH

I sure do wish I had been on line before I finally gave up on being a speech
therapist. When I came to this board I never dreamed there would be so many
of you guys here!! Personally I could no longer take being jerked from to
school to school (six in 7 years), the caseloads, paperwork, constant
meetings about everything under the sun, and all the other stuff that kept me
from really being a therapist. I'm going to teach kindergarten instead now
where I can impact the language in a more constructive way!! Can't wait. I'll
actually be able to spend quality time with my OWN kids instead of minutes
with everyone elses. Thank God all the rest of you want to stay where you
are.
I'll miss a lot of things about Spec. Ed. not the least of which is the
population of children and the wonderful people who teach there! I hope I
bring something useful to this new perspective. I'll end up back here, though
because speech therapy is all I've done in the schools since 1975.

SUBJECT:
Where to go from here?   Date:  97-07-23 09:38:22 EST
From:  CkngSlf

I am new to this board and glad to find it. I need some expert advice.   I
have a son age 4.5 yrs old who has mild auditory processing delay and has had
speech therapy for a year. I was told he has now met all his goals and will
be 'graduated' from therapy at the end of the summer. I agree that he has
improved but am not convinced he is ready to stop the therapy. He speaks well
during therapy but does not seem to  transfer that to his peers in preschool
or with any other situation except when he is alone with me. He also shows
delays in other areas. He still cannot count to 10, recognize any numbers or
letters and cannot distinguish 'same' or 'different' in simple toddler games.

I am a professional musician and teacher, (and 10 years ago was tested and
found to be creatively gifted) and I study giftedness in children. I have not
had my son tested for creativity but I am aware of some very strong
tendencies for performing and musical giftedness in him. My question is, does
auditory speech delay and musical giftedness go together, or do I have a
child who is possibly gifted and learning disabled? Where can I go for more
information for my own reading and where should I take my son for help?
Please respond here or feel free to email me. Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go
from here?   Date:  97-07-23 13:14:57 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Dear Ckngslf,
  I would ask that my child be post tested to determine his current levels of
communication skills- It's not enough that his goals have been met because
there may be other areas of weakness that continue to contribute to his
communication problem.  If you'd like to get an overall profile of his
strengths and weaknesses, a full psychoeducational battery would be in order.
I haven't seen a trend in musical giftedness with my auditory process
disorder kiddos but each child is an individual.  It certainly is possible to
be gifted and learning disabled at the same time.  I'm a bit surprised that
he was diagnosed with an auditory processing disorder at age three.  Was it a
receptive language or language comprehension problem?  Some therapist use
these labels and auditory processing interchangeably but there really quite
different.  What types of things did he work on in therapy?  What
specifically does he do when interacting with his peers that bothers you
now?

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here?   Date:  97-07-23 14:54:28 EST
From:  CkngSlf

Dear TLVAIL,
   Thanks for responding to my post. First of all, where do i go to get a
psycoeducational battery of tests? Is this a normal follow-up proceedure with
speech therapy or do I go through the local elementary school, psychologist,
doctor?
    I was told my son had a mild auditory processing delay which affected his
expressive speech. Apparently when he was tested at 36 months old, he
understood language around him at his age-appropriate level but was only able
to produce speech at a level of a 2 year old. The types of things they worked
on in therapy were sequencing, matching, 2 and 3 level commands, and all this
was done through game play and talking with a private therapist who I thought
was very good at speaking so he could understand, and encouraging him to use
more words. We as a family incorporated many new subtleties in our
conversations to help my son and he did show favorable progress....but mostly
with me when we were alone. I take more time to let him talk and spend more
time with him than anyone else. I find that when things are exciting, noisy,
or visually busy, he closes up and forgets all words. He gets the frustration
look and pulls me or hits me to help him cope (or find his words). At his
preschool, the teachers say he is shy....which is not like him anywhere
else...and when I have observed, I noticed that a particular classmate always
leads him around and helps him, speaks for him, and decides all his choices
for him. I have confronted teachers, and the other parents, and the child
himself, and although all say it is improving, I don't agree and am ready to
switch to another preschool. Anyway, this is it in a nutshell, and I am
worried some delays are being overlooked. I look foward to hearing a
response.

SUBJECT:  Re:Auditory Processing   Date:  97-07-24 06:58:22 EST
From:  FVIDOLIN

The book CENTRAL AUDITORY PROCESSING DISORDER - Strategies for Use with
Children and Adults by Dorothy A. Kelly, which is put out by Communication
Skill Builders is an excellent resource for a puzzling problem.  Good luck!
Hope you find the book helpful.

The address for CSB is 555 Academic Court, San Antonio, TX  78204-9941
Phone # [phone]

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here?   Date:  97-07-24 07:35:55 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

You mentioned that your little guy was seen by a private therapist and the
therapy sounds appropriate to me.  However, I agree that three is a very
young age to diagnose auditory processing disabilities.  All that aside, the
public schools are responsible for providing special education services in
all areas for youngsters at no cost to the family.  This would include any
evaluations or interventions determined to be necessary for educational
purposes.  So...for further evaluation, contact your local public school and
ask who the appropriate contact person is for this.  Then, in writing,
present your concerns and request a referral meeting to discuss evaluation.
Now, my opinion.  A 4.5 year old might not know all their letters yet.  This
is a skill that is taught in kindergarten in most places.  While many
children know their letters at this age, it is not out of the realm of
average for a child to not know them.  However, most children can match same
items in games.
As a speech path who works with prek kiddos in the schools, I sometimes
dismiss youngsters from my program who have met the goal of having
appropriate skills for their age.  However, I continue to monitor their USE
of their skills in the classroom for a portion of the following school year.
In most cases, the skills transfer into everyday situations nicely.  If I
suspect other learning problems, I express this to the family and teachers
using examples of the kinds of things I have seen.  This helps the whole team
make a better determination about further testing.
I'm curious...Why did you see a private therapist vs. the school therapist?


SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here?   Date:  97-07-24 14:37:50 EST
From:  CkngSlf

Shelly,
   Thanks for your response. To answer your question, I took my son to a
private therapist at age 3 because I didn't know the school therapy situation
existed for children that young. I was concerned that he did not seem to
respond frequently when spoken to and I thought something was wrong with his
hearing. I went to a Speech and Hearing center for a hearing test. Since they
came up with normal results, they decided to test speech and that's how we
slid right in to have therapy on a private basis.
    I should also mention that when my son was 2 wks. old, he was stricken
with a severe case of spinal menengitis. After 3 weeks of hospital stay, he
was released with apparently no permanent damage. I was told that since he
was so young there could be developmental delays along the way as he matured,
but there was none apparent at his ripe old age of 5 wks. when he was
released. So....I am forever on my guard to watch for delays. I do suspect
there are other problems but I was told they would be mild and correctable. I
just don't know exactly where or when to begin my search for testing and
therapy or tutoring.

SUBJECT:  Re:Where to go from here?   Date:  97-07-25 08:09:23 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

If you are concerned about you child now then the time to begin your request
for evaluation is now.  You really should begin by contacting your local
public school.  Most schools in our area have great preschool teams who do a
great job of identifying strengths and weaknesses in young children.  The
school district has a responsibility to respond to your request.  They also
hold a responsibility to provide an educational program if your child needs
one.  Good luck.

SUBJECT:  Speech and Martial Arts   Date:  97-07-26 11:21:26 EST
From:  FulTymDave

Unique program of martial arts as a therapeutic tool that enhances many
communication skills including: breath support, trunk and head control,
attention span, sequencing and memory abilities, and pragmatics. Success with
children of many diagnostic catagories.  We are interested in expanding our
network of professionals.  For more info call us at [phone].

SUBJECT:
Lateral /k/ and /g/   Date:  97-07-26 18:18:29 EST
From:  FVIDOLIN

I have a student in my caseload - entering 4th, has a "slushy" /k/ and /g/.
Have tried everything... throwing his head back, gargling, etc.  the only
thing that seems to work is to hold the middle of his tongue down with a
tongue blade or lollipop, but even that is inconsistent, and there's no
carryover.

He's frustrated, making no progress, and has worked on this sound since
Kinder.  He just switched to my school, so I'm new with him, but we're both
at our wits end...any suggestions?

SUBJECT:  Re:facilitated comm   Date:  97-07-29 08:54:11 EST
From:  Lolli04

I am an SLP currently in the dark ages of "pull-out" services.(6 years) I
have been interviewing for a new position and all are schools with SP/L
services based in the classroom, and where almost all students attend their
home schools. Consequently, the cases that I currently send "OUT" to our coop
sped/CD classrooms(Autistic,PDD,CP,etc) are serviced AT the places I am
interviewing with. I have been asked questions about Augmentative/Alternative
Com. and Facilitated Com. and have NO experience with these.(except for a
college course 7 years ago). Can anyone give me some resources for
information on these, especially Facilitated Communication? Thanks.
Lolli04

SUBJECT:  Facilitated com/school ther.   Date:  97-07-29 18:17:48 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

I believe that ASHA, the national speech and hearing assoc., published a memo
this past year, stating that facilitated communication was no longer
determined to be appropriate means of communication, and that they couldn't
support the research findings at that point.   Somebody correct me if I'd
dreaming....  Facilitated communication was assisted communication for
autistic individuals and others, whereby another person would support their
arm or hand while the dependent person spelled out words by using the
alphabet on a board...
     When calling the school system for help, I'd call the admin building for
your system, and ask for the number for the Special Ed. Dep't.   The
secretaries there will be able to assist you in calling the correct person in
the area of sp. ed. to help you test your young child, and determine the most
appropriate educational goals/placement for him if needed.

SUBJECT:
Re:Facilitated com/school th   Date:  97-07-29 21:12:49 EST
From:  Lolli04

I, too, thought Facilitated Communication is as you described it (WVVHiker).
That's why I was surprised that it was mentioned in the interview. Maybe it
was thrown in there to see if I would react to it. I really don't know if
they are actually still practicing it in that district. I do remember seeing
reports questioning its validity.  Thanks for your input. Lolli04

SUBJECT:
Re:facilitated comm   Date:  97-07-30 09:11:29 EST
From:  Boulevard

Aside from your question about materials, I would just like to comment that I
am disturbed to hear that ALL sp/lang services are provided in the
classroom....I think it's certainly appropriate and beneficial to do
classroom-based intervention, but I STRONGLY believe that a continuum of
service delivery models is best(and legally appropriate).  I think I would be
asking questions of this interviewer as to why only one delivery model is
used, and based upon what research.  Just my 2 cents worth - Nancy

SUBJECT:
Assessment   Date:  97-07-31 12:08:19 EST
From:  Msc30

I am a S/L Clinician in the public schools.  I've been asked to complete a
S/L evaluation on a 4th grader the first day of the 97-98 school year.  She
was referred through the instructional support process for difficulties with
listening and reading comprehension.  She does not qualify for special ed
services as aresult of her pysch eval.  There is asignificant split between
verbal and nonverbal reasoning on the WISC-III in favor of the nonverbal
skills.  Her listening comp on the WIAT is low average at the 14th% and her
listening comp on the Woodcock Johnson Tests of Cognitive Abilities is below
the 7th %.  I need suggestions as to what measures I should use in my eval.
Thankyou.

SUBJECT:  Re:Assessment   Date:  97-07-31 18:56:12 EST
From:  Willsons

I suggest:
1) The Listening Test - It includes these subtests: Main Idea, Details,
Concepts, Reasoning, Story Comprehension. There are excellent teaching
suggestions in the examiner's manual. It is available from LinguiSystems, 1
800 PRO IDEA.
2) Test of Auditory Processing TAPS
It includes tests of auditory memory. manipulation of auditory material,
discrimination between like-sounding words, & others.
These tests do require the student to verbalize, but if you take careful
notes of the student's manner of responding and her exact words, you can
learn a lot about how she processes what she hears.
I will have to go off-line to get more details for you.
I will do that later, :-) as once I "quit" it's difficult to get back on.


SUBJECT:  Re:Assessment   Date:  97-07-31 23:18:23 EST
From:  Willsons

I'm back on-line to add some more information:
TAPS is the Test of Auditory-Perceptual Skills
It includes: Auditory Number Memory Forward, Auditory Number Memory Reversed,
Auditory Sentence Memory, Auditory Word Memory, Auditory Interpretation of
Directions, Auditory Word Discrimination, Auditory Processing; altogether
gives an Auditory Quotient. I don't have it at home so I can't give you the
ordering information tonight.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-07-31 23:22:18 EST
From:  Willsons

Continued:
There are individual tests (other than the one in TAPS) of auditory
discrimination for word pairs.
If you have time, you might consider some criterion-referenced testing which
could be based upon pages from text Auditory Processing Activites. Includes:
Auditory-Discrimination, Memory, Perception, Association, Synthesis,
Comprehension. (Authors JoAnn & RogerJeffries and available from ECL
Publications, 708 West Solano Drive, Phoenix, Arizona, 85013.) Your scores
would not be standardized, but you would have additional information to
assess her skills.
Has this child had an audiological evaluation by a certified audiologist?
Please e-mail me if I can answer any further questions. Good luck!

SUBJECT:  Re:
Assessment   Date:  97-08-01 21:13:26 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
   Regarding the testing of the 4th grader - check her age too, as there is a
wide range of ages in one grade...and then the testing would be dependent on
her age, and the test that would be appropriate...I'd like to see an overall
language test, such as the Test of Language Competence, to see how she uses
her language skills in "everyday life".    Comparing her language scores and
her verbal IQ scores - is she working to her ability, or is there a true
deficit??  Why the "first day"?   Would prefer she gets back into the
swing/routine of school ....   just some thoughts, keep us posted as to how
it goes :)

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-02 07:50:29 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I would agree that an overall assessment like the TLC might be good.  But I
also agree that the first day of school isn't the best time to evaluate any
child.  This is a time when the teachers and students are getting to know the
routines and rules of the classroom, and the setup of the school year is
being created.  Especially for a child with a disability of any kind, this is
a very important time.  Why was this decision made?

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-02 21:19:22 EST
From:  Boulevard

I agree with Shelley --- if we are to be evaluating the impact of the
communication disorder(s) upon the educational performance, how on earth can
you do that the first day of school?  You referred to psych testing - but did
I miss the educational testing?   I'm not saying that this student wouldn't
be appropriate to receive services, but where is the communication
preassessment?  Nancy

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-03 12:03:04 EST
From:  Msc30

Shelly and Nancy.....I totally agree with your concerns about testing the
first few days of school.This thought entered my mind   as soon as I received
the request from the district psychologist who completed the summer eval.
The request was issued from our director of pupil services last week.  The 45
day MDE timeline is also "expiring".  Once school begins we have 15 days to
complete the MDE.  Once again the stress is passed to  me.  This child was
not referred for a s/l eval.  during the instructional support process this
past school year.  Our district is infamous for passing the buck---if the
child does not qualify for "placement", then it must be "speech/language"
delay.  This is not the case 95% of the time.  The school year hasn't even
started and I'm already behind!   Do you believe how stressful the beginning
of the year is?  How do you deal with everything?  Thank you very much for
your input...:)

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-03 12:07:39 EST
From:  Msc30

WW hiker....thankyou very much for your suggestions.  I think we all agree
that the first days of school aren't a good idea for assessment.  This is out
of my control now since we only have 15 days to complete the MDE once school
begins.  I"ll let you know how things go.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-03 15:54:32 EST
From:  Mithue

If you have 45 days to complete testing, you should have an additional 30 to
schedule an ARD meeting to review test results. Also, I do like The Listening
Test and The CELF. Keep an eye on her attention. I had a student who did not
process questions, wasn't even aware that I had asked a question from
theListening Test because she was too busy looking everywhere but at me. What
did the psych. score for Freedom from Distractability? What were her grades?
What modifications were made last year? If she wasn't referred, did you plug
in to any classes she had? Do you have a teacher report or classroom
observation report by an administrator or special educator documenting
classroom difficulty?
sue

SUBJECT:  interesting web page   Date:  97-08-03 18:15:31 EST
From:  Kaseyy

Hi,

Another music therapist has prepared a web page with this address:

http://home.att.net/~bkbrunk/index.html

We have some interesting links to other special education related sites.
Thought I'd share that in case anyone is interesting in more internet
"surfing".

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-03 18:39:04 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I'm confused and might be wrong...In my school district if a new consent for
evaluation is signed, the 45 day clock begins ticking then.  It is my
understanding that the 45 days are SCHOOL DAYS. So, for example, if a team
evaluation is done and nothing comes up and the team reconvenes to ask for my
evaluation, a new consent is needed and I get 45 school days to complete the
task.  It's only if the concern is on the original consent that I am up the
creek.  Please folks, correct me if I'm wrong here!!!
Also, if you only have 15 days left, that's still three weeks when school
begins...school days at 5 a week (and don't count Labor Day, no school).
Also, I hesitate to ask this but what happened the last 6 weeks of school
which accounts for 30 of the 45 days?  Six weeks is a long time to wait to
pass on a referral of any kind.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-03 22:14:34 EST
From:  Ratatat

< It is my understanding that the 45 days are SCHOOL DAYS.>

I can go back and double check IDEA, but I'm pretty sure it's calendar
days.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 07:33:14 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Ratatat,
Thank you for checking.  Our school district has been doing school days for
at least three years.  This is in Connecticut...could it be different there?
Also, am I correct about the date of consent for the testing (new
consent...new time line).  If not, I'll take this up with my director and
principal who told us to use school days.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 08:03:13 EST
From:  Willsons

I hope I don't sound contrary here, but I have some concerns about some
comments that have been made about this situation. I agree that a student
probably should not be pulled the first day of school for testing. My reason
would that a child needs to hear all the rules and plans that are presented
in the classroom the first day. She needs to begin the process of making
friends with her classmates. In other words, she needs to feel she belongs. A
child with suspected communication difficulties is the child who especially
should not miss the initial events. However, I would want to test this child
as soon as possible. In my experience, the scenario is that this child's
difficulties were suspected last year. The usual procedure would have been
for her classroom teacher to have written a referral to the Child Study Team,
outlining the difficulties she had seen in the classroom. That Team and the
teacher would have met and discussed this child's classroom performance and
made recommendations for accomodations/changes in the classroom. If the child
continued to have difficulty, the parents would have been notified and
someone would have made a formal referral to the CSE. After permission was
received, the psychologist would begin testing. Some Districts automatically
request Sp. & Lg. testing and others would request it per the observations of
the psychologist. My point is that supposedly a lot has already taken place
on this student's behalf, and that what is being requested is follow-through
as soon as possible. Many of you suggested other issues that need to be
considered as part of the picture and I agree with you, but I would expect
they are already part of the record. The goal is to get services in place
early in the school year, and not to let this drift into the fall, Christmas
time, second semester, as we've all seen happen. Also, concerning choices of
tests. There are several to choose from. In the interest of efficient use of
time, and meeting the child's needs, you want to choose the test(s) that will
provide the key to helping this child. It was originally suggested that she
had difficulty in the areas of listening and reading comprehension; that is
why I would start with the tests dealing with listening and processing. I
also would include comprehensive tests of language such as the CELF.
I hope these thoughts are helpful to you. It is not my intention to sound
argumentative. Sue

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 11:04:01 EST
From:  VBSSLP

My understanding is that we don't need a new consent signed...just inform
parents of what types of testing are being initiated.  Not sure about the 45
days starting up again...We generally seem to feel the pressure to get it all
done within the specified amount of days from day one.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 11:16:40 EST
From:  Msc30

In Pa. once the permission to evaluate is signed by the parent, the district
then has 45 school days to complete the multidisciplinary evaluation(MDE).
We also have the Instructional Support Team (IST) process in place for
students who are experiencing difficulties in the school setting.  These
difficulties include academic, emotional, and/or behavioral.   During the IST
process the team brainstorms for stategies to help the referred student.
These strategies are then implemented by the team for 30 school days.  After
30 school days the team reconvenes to review successes and remaining areas of
need for the child.  It is also decided at this time whether to proceed to
MDE  or exit from the process with the classroom teacher implementing the
strategies.  In my district, when consent to evaluate is received  from the
parent , S/L eval is always included on the consent.  This consent was
probably signed near the end of the school year,  the reason for 45days being
around Sept. 15.  I have no information on this particular student since I
was not involved in any of the IST meetings.  S/L was not part of the initial
brainstorming strategies.  I received the request after a summer psych was
given.  I need to find out all the info once school starts.  I would also
like to add for those of you who are not familiar with the IST process, that
I have to take each of my S/L only students through this process.  Talk about
a lot of unnessary extra work!   I have 26 yrs. experience as a S/L clinician
in the public school system and have not had many situations where I have
"corected" an "r" , "s", expressive, receptive language difficuties etc. in
30 days.  Once again "thanks" to all of you.

SUBJECT:  huge caseload/help!   Date:  97-08-04 11:47:27 EST
From:  Lolli04

I am a public school SLP who works in two buildings with approx. 80 students
total on my caseload.  I am searching for different service delivery models
to implement. Currently, I pull-out all of my students. I would like to get
into the classroom for my language impaired students, but scheduling planning
with teachers and the actual therapy time is pretty much impossible! About 40
of my students are language impaired (or a combination artic/lang.) and are
scattered into 25 different classrooms. Short of grouping same grade students
in the same classroom (which is technically against the law) I am at a stand
still. I collaborate with the teachers involved, but it is difficult to see
each one every week, since none of us are awarded planning time for this
purpose. I have read about block scheduling, which seems effective for
articulation cases (student is seen every day for 8 weeks or so?) But what
happens to the students waiting for the second block of time? They are
struggling in the classroom the first quarter of school!
Also, is there someone I can contact to look into our school district's
services that might put pressure on them to hire another full-time therapist
to adequately service the SL impaired population? I have written letters to
the superintendent and school board (one of our school board members is also
a parent of one of my students). Our district has an early childhood center,
3 elem., and one mid. School.Total 3200 students.  Also, for the 1998-1999
school year we are adding 30 classrooms! I am responsible for 2 elementary
schools, one with 900 students and one with 500. The other full time
therapist is responsible for an elementary school of 600 and the early
childhood center (200 students). A 1/5 time therapist is at the middle school
a total of 1 day a week. Oh, I am in Illinois.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 13:07:53 EST
From:  PBTanguay

Shelley - I actually had been reading about the CT timelines when I read your
post.  According to the material provided by SERC, it appears that you are
correct in your understanding for our state.  The language reads "The IEP
shall be implemented as soon as possible after it is revised or developed and
within 45 school days of referral.....These timelines shall be exclusive of
the time required to obtain parental consent."  So, it looks like your
Principal and Director are correct. I swear the "powers that be" invent ways
to confuse everybody - the due process timelines are calendar days - "Within
45 calendar days after the receipt of a request for a hearing........"

Pam

SUBJECT:  HELP FOR THE LITTLE ONES   Date:  97-08-04 14:29:23 EST
From:  HNYPooh

Please help me to teach others,I need ideas on
Inclusion/Co-teaching,especially for reading levels 1-4 and grades 4-6.I need
to help these children and I want to bring any ideas into my classroom.Please
help me to help others.Send all ideas to HNYPooh.
PLEASE HELP :) :)

THANKS :) :)

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment/Pam   Date:  97-08-04 15:15:29 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Pam,
Thank you!!!  I knew about the due process guidelines and I know also that
sometimes the two are mixed up.  I'm glad to know that, at least here, that
the 45 days from referral for test completion are school days.
ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:huge caseload/help!   Date:  97-08-04 16:22:09 EST
From:  MareCash

Hi! I am almost inthe same dilema only I have one elementary school (600
kids) and my caselaod is around 75 give or take five or so. I know it is
really hard. Our districts policy is a max of 75 classified kids on our
caseload. Of course, when you go over good luck in getting help for
thesituation.

Anyways, some suggestions for your current situation....
I had my first year this year in a K-5 (I was preschool before) and I had no
experience with push-in services. I loved the idea, but was scared to death
to teach a whole class, and the scheduling was tough. My kids were scattered
everywhere. So, the majority of my year was all pull-out.
I decided that I had to start somewhere, so the resiource room teacher and I
co-taught once a week for a thirty minute session in her room. We would talk
about hte book they were working on for the week, and I would come up with a
lesson to focus on the book and integrate some speech and language goals.
Sometimes I flopped, sometimes it went great. We had 8 kids in the group. By
the end of the year the group had changed some and we had to change some
goals. We plan on doing this again this year - it was a good place to start
because it wasn't a whole class, and our goals really meshed nicley.

For this coming year, I asked to be a part of the team who placed kids in
classes for the fall. I found a few teachers who really wanted to work with
me (they all don't - there are many teachers who don't want push-in services)
and we did group some of the kids into several classes. I don't know about it
being illegal, but it will defiantly serve the children better. We didn't put
more than five SI kids together in a class.This cut way down on the number of
teachers to work with. Of course, over the summer many kids will move in and
out, so who knows what I will find. We are a city school and the end of the
month means time to move for many of our students. Sad.

So, I hope to do some small group activities in these classrooms. We'll see
how it goes.

I wil also be co-teaching with the art teacher this year! Sounds like fun!.
We haev an 8:1:1 class 0f students aged 5-8. These kids need lots of help
with basci concepts, following directions, etc, and I thought working in art,
where there are lots of directions, would be great. She will do her lesson,
and I will float and reinforce concepts, etc.

I also wrote a grant this year for a new K program. I willbe going in once a
week to each of the five K classrooms to do a half-hour language enhancement
activitiy -geared at my SI students, but beneficial for the whole class. This
is scary to me- a whole class of K's , but somehow I will do it.
I'm one of those people who has great ideas, then when it's time to carry
them out I'm shaking in my shoes. Then after you do it a few times, it's OK.
I have 28 K kids so far on my caseload, so these large group activities will
count a one of their weekly therapy sessions. I have always worried about
them not getting enough( I was trained for 1:1 therapy), so I'm hoping this
turns out positive.

As far as conferencing with teachers,I am also trying something new. We all
know we don't have time to meet with all the teachers. I ahev developed a
form for the teachers to fill out. It has things on it like :  theme of the
week, books for the week, etc. This way I have an idea about what they are
focusing on. I'm not sure they will fill them out, but I wil try it.

Well, gotta get my kids to gymanstics - these were just some ideas to throw
around. It is a hard step to give up that pull-out - I won't give it all up -
it will probably stillbe a large part of what I do, but the other way is fun
too!
.

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-04 18:36:16 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I'm in NC and we also do not get a second permission form signed of an SI
eval.  Would it be possible to contact these parents and ask if they could
bring the student in for the eval. before school starts?  I have done this in
the past and it provides me with the extra advantage of talking to the
parents about home behaviors to give insight into the communication problem.
I agree that the student should not be taken out of class on the first day-
even the first week can be rough because schedules are getting worked out
etc.  One thing I'd like to mention is that I've had many students do great
on the CELF-3 receptive scale then bomb the TAPS- It depends on how much
their able to use visual cues to comprehend.

SUBJECT:  Re:huge caseload/help!   Date:  97-08-04 18:46:50 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I've had success seeing all my language kiddo's in the classroom.  I see my
artic. kids in the class too and pull as needed for initial training and
placement.  I also see an HI and CAPD kiddo individually due to the nature of
their goals.  I gave my pricipal a list of my students at the end of the year
and she agreed to try to group them into specific classrooms ( no more than 5
in any 1 class) and I suggested particular teachers whose style matched the
needs of my students.  Why would grouping them be illegal?  It's much more
effective to be in one class for 45-50 min. than rushing from class to class
seeing 1 or 2 students for 20 min. at a time!  As far as the huge caseload,
It sounds like you're doing the right thing.  Explain that you feel you are
unable to do your job as well as you know you are capable of because of the
numbers.  Explain that the children are not getting the services they need
and you feel it's unethical for you to continue on the current course.-  Send
copies to everyone on the board as well as the EC director.   Is there
somewhere else you can work if they don't see the need?  It may also be
helpful to show them how much each speech/language child pulls down in state
and Federal dollars to show them that SLP's actually generate a great deal of
money for the system.  In other words, they bring in more than they cost.  It
behooves the system to have as many as needed.  I've quit over caseloads I've
deemed too high (anything above 60).  When they can't find SLP's they realize
they need to change.

SUBJECT:  hypotonia   Date:  97-08-05 14:42:21 EST
From:  SDiffen544

Hi
Anyone with a child that has hypotonia? Low muscle tone.  Any suggestions. My
daughters expressive speech is much delayed. AT 24 months she says 3 words.
Or are there any SL therapist who would be happy with  this?
Thanks in advance.
Stella

SUBJECT:  Tongue Thrust   Date:  97-08-05 15:47:00 EST
From:  TimM13

Hi! I am a recent SLP graduate who just recently learned that I, Yes I, have
a tongue thrust.  My new dentist pointed it out to me.  Now I need to learn
how to treat myself.  Does anybody know of any good programs or am I just
wasting my time.  I do not have a speech problem (my "s" is fine) and I've
had no feeding concerns.  Your opinions are appreciated!
Sincerely,
MM  (using Tim's computer)

SUBJECT:  Re:hypotonia   Date:  97-08-05 16:40:44 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Dear Stella,
Has your child had a speech/language evaluation?  If not, you should call
your local health department or a private practice to get one scheduled.  Who
diagnosed the hypotonia?  Low tone in the facial muscles can impact speech
and language development but it's important to get a comprehensive evaluation
to know what is going on.  The earlier you start, the better off your child
will be.  Good luck and keep us posted!  Tracy

SUBJECT:  Re:huge caseload/help!   Date:  97-08-05 20:45:51 EST
From:  MareCash

I had one more classroom I willbe working inthat I forgot to mention. It's a
15:1:1 class, lots of LD, Md and SI kids who are between 9 and 11 years. This
year I am going to do the majority of the lessons form Patti Hamaguchi's book
"It's Time to Listen." Communication Skill Builders. It's a really nice
resource.

SUBJECT:  Re:hypotonia   Date:  97-08-06 07:31:04 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Hi Stella,
I agree, get a speech evaluation done.  I would also request an evaluation by
an occupational therapist to look at muscle tone throughout the body.  Many
of my little tykes have low muscle tone in the facial muscles AND in other
parts of the body (like hands, fingers, back...relates to sitting).  I work
closely with the occupational therapist.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-07 13:41:42 EST
From:  Boulevard

The impression I received (perhaps I missed something) was that the referral
for testing was made, but I didn't hear what the preassessment consisted
of...I don't think anyone would suggest our hesitation as putting off
services for a child in need.  However, walking blindly into a testing
situation without having the benefit of exactly what the communication
concerns were last school year  and the modification attempts in the LRE to
help with those concerns is what bothers me.   It is common, unfortunately,
for a  speech/language evaluation to be recommended as preassessment...."The
child is having trouble reading; obviously there is a language delay.."(an
historical scenario that resulted in our department insisting on
preassessment)  This leads to delaying the actual services the child needs,
as far as I'm concerned.  The child is evaluated (often without the benefit
of cognitive testing, social history, educational assessment) by the SLP, an
IEP is written, and the child starts language therapy...However, the reading
issue, etc... isn't resolved...By the time the building team gets around to
looking at this kid again, it's been almost a year....If good preassessment
(which means getting into the classroom & applying strategies and creating
modifications) happens,  the correct step is to look at a comprehensive
mulitidisciplary evaluation when it is shown (not just suspected) that
preassessment cannot meet the child's needs.  Nancy

SUBJECT:  Re:Speech and
ADD/ADHD   Date:  97-08-07 16:28:53 EST
From:  Rmtrrosie

You are not alone!  In our school system we also get referals on ADD/ADHD
students.  I agree that it is difficult to decide if the disorder is causing
the language problem, or if the language problem is pre-existing.  Hopefully,
we will be getting guidelines for the system to decide who services the
ADD/ADHD student with language disorders.  If we get them, I'll try to post
again.

SUBJECT:  autism and facilitated comm   Date:  97-08-07 17:31:52 EST
From:  CHAUNCEY5

In working with children with autism and watching them use facilitated
communication I have observed some children who type without assistance.
Since facilitated communication is a source of such controversy now is it
possible that more students may be taught to be independent  and utilize the
facilitator without physical assistance?  This tool is a very valuable one
for non verbal students wouldn't this be a worthwhile endeavor.

SUBJECT:
Re:Emotionally Handicapped   Date:  97-08-08 19:08:50 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

I read with interest the comments regarding testing ADD/ADHD students for
speech and language disorders.   I agree it may be tricky, and in the public
schools, I'm definitely not looking for "extra customers"....and sometimes
feel other special ed. services may help them more in the classroom
....daily instruction and modifications done by the grade level sp. ed.
teacher...than I would be able to do.     Another area I would like to see
comments on is providing services for Emotionally Handicapped students, who
are agressive, fighting everybody who breathes, and anger is the main part of
their lives unfortunately......  is working on their language skills
beneficial to them, when control of their lives is the main struggle that
they have...... it's not the ones who are unable to express their needs and
feelings, some of these students can express themselves REAL clearly ......
I'd like to make a real difference in a child's life if I service
him/her.....not just have the units of service completed....  .....this is
elem. school age, many from poorer homes, where the parents concern may be
food, clothing , and shelter, and making sure that they keep their
jobs....(hard time taking off during working hours)... thanks for any
suggestions/comments

SUBJECT:  To Shelly & TVAil   Date:  97-08-08 22:21:09 EST
From:  SDiffen544

HI
Thanks for writing back so soon. I guess I left out alot of comments.
Savannah is 24 months,MRI was normal. Pediatric nuero. dx'd her with
hypotonia CP.  She is under speech/language therapy 2x/week,OT is 2x/month
and PT is 2x/month. Her most severe delay is expressive speech. Her receptive
speech isn't quite as delayed. OT  & PT have her only 2-3 months delayed. We
have been using SLT for 9 months and she only says 4 words well with
meaning:ma, da, hi and hot. I can hear her try to say other things with
changes in her tone of voice but it sounds different. Like "blue" comes out "
buee" for her. (Don't get me wrong, I think this is great that she is
trying.) We'll have another evaluation soon and we are in an Early
Intervention Program too.
I am just getting frustrated with the slow progress. Or do you think this is
slow? Before the therapy started she didn't say any words at all. Our speech
therapist said  in the beginning of therapy she never even closed her mouth.
I also wonder what the future holds for her.
Thanks again
Stella

P.S. I think speech therapists  are great!  YOu  all must have such
patience!

SUBJECT:  Re: Assessment   Date:  97-08-09 06:04:51 EST
From:  Ratatat

<The child is evaluated (often without the benefit of cognitive testing,
social history, educational assessment) by the SLP, an IEP is written, and
the child starts language therapy...However, the reading issue, etc... isn't
resolved.>

[These are copied from "Special Education Law and Practice: A Manual for the
Special Education Practitioner, Ed. by Gary M. Ruesch]

Tests and other evaluative materials must be designed to assess specific
areas of educational need, rather than to provide a single general
intelligence quotient score.  In addition, tests used must accurately reflect
a child's aptitute or achievement level or other factors, rather than the
child's impaired sensory, manual or speaking skills.  Finaly, no single
procedure may be used as the sole criterion for determining an appopriate
education program for the child.

Under the regulations, an evaluation must be performed by a
multi-disciplinary team or group of people, including at least one teacher or
other specialist with knowledge in the area of suspected disability.  The
child must be assessed in all areas related to the suspected disability,
including, where appropriate, health, vision, hearing, social and emotional
status, general intelligence, academic performance, communicative status and
motor abilities.  For children who are suspected of having a specific
learning disability, the regulations contain additional requirements
regarding evaluation team members and criteria for determining the existence
of a specific learning disability.
34 CFR Sec. 300.532(b) - 300.532(f) and 300.340 - 300.341.

The procedures for evaluating children with specific learning disabilities
mandate that the additional eligibility criterion that the evaluative team
determine the existence of a severe discrepancy between achievement and
ability in one or more of the following areas:  oral expression, listening
comprehension, written expression, basic reading skills, reading
comprehension, mathematics calculation, or mathematics reasoning.
34 CFR Sec. 300.541(a)(2)

SUBJECT:  Re:Emotionally Handicapped   Date:  97-08-09 06:07:24 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Another area I would like to see comments on is providing services for
Emotionally Handicapped students, who are agressive, fighting everybody who
breathes, and anger is the main part of their lives unfortunately.>

I think the new IDEA will address this.  I believe that it mandates
behavioral plans as a part of the IEP for students who have behavioral
problems.

SUBJECT:  Re:Savannah   Date:  97-08-09 12:19:21 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Stella,
It sounds like you are on the right track.  The support services Savannah is
receiving are a good start.  It's great that she is starting to say
words...even ones you don't understand right now...and buee for blue is
really alright...many kiddos have problems making that L sound at two.  Keep
working with the folks you have through early intervention.  I'm sure they
are giving you plenty of ideas to teach understanding of vocabulary.  I
always tell preschool parents, talk your way through the day.  You might feel
like you're talking to yourself, but this is excellent input for your little
tyke.  When you talk about what you are doing you are putting language into
context which helps develop understanding (example, while tying shoes you
might be saying " look at these shoes.  Lets put one on this foot.  Now one
on the other foot.  I'm going to tie them now.  Okay...time to go for a
walk.").  Play and talk to Savannah...but I'm sure you have already heard
that.  I'm glad to hear that an OT is helping.  They have a lot to offer
regarding motor movements and I find we make a good team.  Good Luck.
ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:speech delay   Date:  97-08-09 15:28:18 EST
From:  Missy3840

My son also has been loosely diagnosed with a speech delay. I say loosely
because the  eval was done by a speech path, whose group was referred to me
by my son's ped. (thru the HMO) the eval was a total waste of time, as Brian
wouldn't do anything, point to anything, etc. It was done in a small room
about 10ft by 10ft at a new facility. Not set up for kids by any means. In
one corner was a set of parallel bars and in the other, a bed for OT. Halfway
thru our session, another therapist came in with an elderly man to do therapy
on the bed for his knees. Since it was a new facility there was no where for
these people to work. Brian was more interested in playing on the bars and
reading her book (very interested in ABC's). The results were very sorely
lacking. I promptly contacted my county school system & he was in home
sessions for 2 mo, then 1X a week summer session. A teacher friend has
mentioned that he seems to have some of the symptoms of apraxia (?) he will
be seen by an ENT on tuesday to rule out anything there. The main reason I am
so worried is that he is so advanced in both gross & fine motor dev. and
seems to be very intelligent & understands so much. he will be 3 in october
and knows all his abc's...can't say them *all* but some of them & he can
point them all out. He knows the whole sign language alphabet in sequence and
can often start from the middle & go from there. He loves to count and if I
show him a few of something, he can sometimes put up the right number of
fingers (if he feels like it, that is:-)  The county did not do another
speech eval just a general eval by a teacher. I've checked out the web site
on apraxia looking for info, but it doesn't say how testing is done, etc. If
anyone has info or has similar situation with their kids, please feel free to
email me. I need all the help I can get. Thanks for reading!

SUBJECT:  tongue   Date:  97-08-10 07:35:08 EST
From:  CkngSlf

I am a mom of 4 yr old who has always stuck his tongue out when
concentrating. He moves it in and out and in the winter gets terribly chapped
lips. He had spinal menengitis as an infant and when released from the
hospital no apparent signs of brain damage were present. He has been in
speech therapy for a year for a mild auditory processing delay. Other delays
are not confirmed but I suspect some other mild problems for which he will be
tested next month. Is there any connection with this tongue thing and other
delays?

SUBJECT:  Re:speech of Missy's son   Date:  97-08-10 09:23:48 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
    Sounds like your son has learned alot.    Can you tell us more of what he
can say?    Does he say words on his own, or just repeat words after you?  If
he does talk on his own, what might be some of his "sentences" or "phrases"?
Just like the earlier message suggested for that child, talking while you do
daily activities, is great for language stimulation for any child, along with
reading to them, and talking about the pictures in the story books.....
    my school system (NH) takes children as soon as they turn 3 for testing,
and/or therapy.... so perhaps a test by your local school system might be
available after his 3rd birthday.....
    Due to the poor testing conditions, the Speech-Language Pathologist might
have done an observation, and written down a sample of what he said, and his
interactions with her in order to present a better "picture" of his
skills......
     Keep us posted how things are going..... hope all is straightened
out...

SUBJECT:  Please Look at our Site!   Date:  97-08-10 19:54:02 EST
From:  Nancybert

There's a great International Educational Internet Web Site Design Contest
for kids 12-18 called ThinkQuest. From August 1- 31st it is being judged for
effectiveness, content, creativity and technical facets.  Because the goal of
the Contest is to promote learning through the Internet, students are needed
to judge the content for effectivess.  There's an email page for feedback by
the students and the entries are checked for appropriate content.  The Global
School Network of C-U-See Me Fame is the administrator of this high quality
educational contest.  We need your assistance in "getting kids to the site!"
TQ's offical rules page is at http://www.advanced.org/thinkquest
My student's site is at: http://library.advanced.org/11799/
The site is entitled: "Just Because We Have A disAbility Doesn't Mean We
BYTE!" and has 3D simulations of dyslexia, hearing impairments, mobility
impairments, sign language library and many other fun but educational
information (All to the tune of the Macarena!).  Surf safely and have fun!


SUBJECT:  ASHA   Date:  97-08-10 20:44:49 EST
From:  Msc30

Would someone please bring me up to date concerning Speech and Language
"assisitants" that ASHA is considering?.  I heard some "sketchy"  info today
that people completing 2 yrs. of training could be hired by a school district
to aid the S/L Clinician.  Does anyone have correct, detailed info on this
topic?   I see huge caseload numbers and many more IEPs if this is
true.Thankyou.

SUBJECT:  Re:ASHA   Date:  97-08-11 18:43:30 EST
From:  LINDA17502

I believe ASHA is still in the planning stage as to the educational level
which will be required for speech pathology assistants.  Have you checked out
the ASHA web site www.asha.org? You might find more info there.

SUBJECT:  speech
therapy assistants   Date:  97-08-11 20:26:59 EST
From:  VCB44

I am very concerned about the emergence of speech therapy assistants.  I can
already see evidence of some local school districts abusing this to the max.
I am presently thinking of two who were recently hired by my own school
district.  I am told that they can function independently but with two hours
of supervision per week.  At one point I was told that the supervising SLP
did not have to have her C's, just a state license.  At one school, a
certified SLP (but non-practicing) will be providing supervision and will
have her own office on the other side of the wall (as they have split a
classroom).  This assistant, I'm told, does have some years of experience and
a Bachelor's degree in speech pathology.  The other assistant has a
bachelor's degree in English!  During her student teaching she worked with an
involved speech student, really enjoyed it, went back and took some courses
in speech pathology and is now out to provide services.  Details of her
supervision are still being worked out.  I am aghast as I said at the
beginning of this post and really feel that the system is being really abused
as the district just works to fill the squares!

SUBJECT:  Re:speech therapy
assistants   Date:  97-08-12 06:29:19 EST
From:  Msc30

Thank you for responding about S/L assistants.  Receiving more info makes me
even more infuriated!  Who are these brain childs that come up with such
ridiculous ideas!?!   What school district is going to hire a fully qualified
S/L person at a higher salary over a lower paid assistant?  I'm sure my
district will opt for the lower salary.  Once again the students are
forgotten for the "almighty" dollar.

SUBJECT:  Re:speech therapy assistants   Date:  97-08-12 11:11:18 EST
From:  LINDA17502

Part of the problem, is that ASHA can make rules only for the
organization/members.  Those of us with CCC's can put our credentials in
jeapordy( with ASHA)  when school districts ask us to supervise people who
are not considered qualified by ASHA standards.  It is a very sticky
situation.  Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but I became a Master's
level clinician to provide therapy, not just to do evaluations, write IEPs,
and then supervise therapy.  On the bright side, some states still have laws
stipulating that the highest qualified professional is to be the service
provider.  Unless a district can prove that they sought out and could not
find a Master's level clinician, they are not supposed to hire lesser
qualified personnel.  Each state has varying regulations, though.

SUBJECT:
Re:speech delay-Missy's son   Date:  97-08-12 13:29:17 EST
From:  AndersonTG

In Illinois, the school district is responsible for doing speech/language
evals. at age 3.  I know we have done them when the child is just turning 3.
You may want to call your school district now and request the evaluation.  By
law, they should honor your request.

SUBJECT:  Re:speech therapy assistants   Date:  97-08-12 22:31:35 EST
From:  SUBEKKOI

You hear of this sort of thing all the time, especially in the medical
community.  "Technicians", "assistants", etc getting the jobs, the better
shifts, etc because their wages are lower.  However, I'm all for an assistant
to help with paperwork, scheduling, running copies, etc.  --  But, I guess if
they gave us that, eventually, abuse would set in.  It's all about dollars
and cents :-(

Incoherent rambling unbecoming a speech-language professional...

SUBJECT:
Auditory/Phono. Processing   Date:  97-08-13 07:15:13 EST
From:  Concepts1

The Earobics and Earobics PRO Auditory Development & Phonics programs use
sophisticated computer-training techniques, including acoustic enhancement of
the speech signal and adaptive training, to facilitate development of the
auditory phonics skills that are critical for speech and language development
and academic success.

Multiple levels of difficulty, as many as 114 levels per game, deliver
extensive practice and comprehensive training of a variety of auditory and
phonological processing skills including auditory attention, auditory
discrimination, auditory figure-ground discrimination, auditory memory,
phonemic synthesis, sound segmentation, auditory and phonemic identification,
sound-symbol correspondence, rhyming and phonological awareness.

Earobics is the only scientifically-based program of its kind. The program is
ideal for children who require more phonics training than what is provided by
most schools. Earobics is critical for children with speech and language
delays, auditory processing and attention deficits, language-based learning
disabilities, and reading difficulties. Earobics PRO is used by
speech-language pathologists, audiologists, educational clinical
psychologists, and reading specialists in private practice, schools, and
hospitals throughout the United States and around world. Now, this
professional-grade program is available directly to parents in an affordable
and easy to use home version.

Visit www.cogcon.com for more information.


SUBJECT:  Re:speech therapy assistants   Date:  97-08-15 01:56:45 EST
From:  Beanie7783

I think LSH Ass't uproar is a waste of our time..Our profession needs to
concentrate on putting more LSH in the field so there are not the shortages
we see in many areas of the country..not training ass'ts....a good ass't is
very valuable to the LSH..and can be trained by an experienced LSH with
common sense....

SUBJECT:  New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-15 06:47:17 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Well....school has started back and I went to several special ed meetings
yesterday.  I don't have time to go into detail but justwant to  warn you
guys that it appears that diagnosis and therapy have taken the backburner for
the more important aspect of the therepeutic process - DOCUMENATION.  I have
always been a very meticulous person with my paperwork in order.  But I am
really disheartened as to what has happened in what has happened in recent
years in terms of accountability needed.  I think we are all humans on this
board and we all have a limited about of physical and mental energy that we
can expend within a day's time without collapsing from fatique and mental
exhaustion.  I see that I can no longer have the time to do the creative type
of things I used to do in therapy which made therapy more fun and motivating
for the child.  With 75 children on my caseload and with 5 different schools
to serve ( one is 24 miles from the other) the ability to plan and execute
good therapy is being compromised by the DOCUMENTATION.  My husband commented
that he is surprised that we don't have to document when we go to the
bathroom, how long it took, and the reason for any delay ( big dump vs.
little dump).  The priority has shifted away from working with the child to
excessive bookeeping and documentation on everything we say or do  I can't
speak to a child's mom in the hall without making a record of exactly what
went on.  BTW,
I've always prided myself on being an excellent therapist.  Never had a
complaint filed against me or gone to mediation or due process in the past 25
years as a public school speech and language pathologist.   Are Special
Education lawyers responsible for this inhumanity?   I feel they are doing
our children more harm in the long run than good.   Would welcome any
comments on this subject.  However, I've got to run for now and start on my
paperwork <g>

~Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-15 11:00:02 EST
From:  Msc30

I agree with you that the paperwork/documentation has gotten out of hand.
I've been a public school S/L Clinician for 26 yrs.  I dread starting year #
27 because I sense an increase in the unnecessary paperwork/accountability.
This increase , I believe, comes from various sources: 1.the untrusting
/gestapo like district I work in    2.  the nitwits operating the PA. Dept.
of Ed.  3.those parents of special needs children who are so demanding and
waltz into the MDE/IEP conferences with  the god-like advocates who truly do
not have a clue as to what goes on in the schools.  There is nothing we can
do to change this.  It will contine to get worse as long as these situations
continue to exist.  I feel sorry for the students in regular ed. because they
truly have no rights.  Unfortunately, the parents of these students were/are
not as vocal as the spec. needs parents.  Our district director of Pupil
Services told all professional staff during an inservice that reg. ed.
students have no rights.  I start each yr. with a positive attitude and truly
look forward to continuiig to help my students.  Unfortunately,  the
positiveness becomes buried under the paperwork, huge caseloads, travel time,
administrative edicts, and unjust parental demands.  Try to have a sane yr.
:)

SUBJECT:  fastforward   Date:  97-08-15 12:27:37 EST
From:  CHRIS HINO

Can anyone give me information on a program called Fast Forward?  I think it
is a computer program for children with delayed language.  Where can I find
out more?  Please leave message or e-mail me at chris [e-mail].
Thanks!

SUBJECT:  Re:fastforward   Date:  97-08-15 13:14:20 EST
From:  PBTanguay

I'm looking for information on this program also, so please post responses to
BB okay?

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-15 14:57:33 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

  <<Try to have a sane yr. :)>>

Thanks for responding to my post.  It helps to vent occasionally and to know
that I'm not alone in my frustrations.  Will try to keep a smile on my face
and pray for strength to do the job that lies ahead.

Harriet  :o)

SUBJECT:  Re:Tongue Thrust   Date:  97-08-15 17:56:26 EST
From:  OromotorSP

One of the best ways to get good tongue retraction is to use therapeutic
straw drinking.  I use a system of straws that gradually works on tongue
retraction through grading.  It is important that you begin with an easy
straw. Place the tip of the straw at midline between your lips. Put only 1/4
to 1/2 inch of the straw between your lips. This position will work on both
lip protrusion and tongue retraction as you will not be able to bite or
suckle on the straw.  When you use this technique with your future client's
you will be amazed at how well it works.  People who attend my workshops have
told me that this technique has worked really well with clients from age 1 on
up.  Make sure to use atleast  8 straws of increasing difficulty.  If you
want more information about the specifics, e-mail me at :
[e-mail]      Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson

SUBJECT:  Re:hypotonia   Date:  97-08-15 18:02:59 EST
From:  OromotorSP

Stella:
The advice about getting a relaible diagnosis is a good one.  Once the
diagnosis is made however, the type of treatment will be very important.
Children with hypotonia, whether it be benign hypotonia or secondary to a
syndrome (Down Syndrome) should receive oral-motor therapy, which directly
addresses the weak muscles.  Make sure that your SLP has received some
training in this area.  It will really make a difference       Sara
Rosenfeld-Johnson

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast ForWord   Date:  97-08-15 19:30:43 EST
From:  Bre5

Go to
http://www.scilearn.com

SUBJECT:  Phonological kids & reading   Date:  97-08-15 19:31:53 EST
From:  LNOVOTNY

Hello all,

I have a question regarding reading skills.  I work with soo many youngsters
who are not yet readers and have severe phonologcial disorders.  I want to
facilitate some early reading skills.  What materials can I use toward this
end?

Thanks,
Laura :)

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-16 06:49:05 EST
From:  Ratatat

< I can't speak to a child's mom in the hall without making a record of
exactly what went on.  BTW,
I've always prided myself on being an excellent therapist.  Never had a
complaint filed against me or gone to mediation or due process in the past 25
years as a public school speech and language pathologist.   Are Special
Education lawyers responsible for this inhumanity? >

After ready your comments about your districts need for an extraordinary
level of documentation, it  made me wonder if your district hasn't recently
lost a due process case?  If so, it would well be that the school is reacting
to that so it might always be well prepared in case it's every challenged
again?

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-16 06:51:57 EST
From:  Ratatat

<3.those parents of special needs children who are so demanding and waltz
into the MDE/IEP conferences with  the god-like advocates who truly do not
have a clue as to what goes on in the schools. >

If parents come to meetings with advocates it usually indicates that they
feel they *need* an advocate to help them with the attaining FAPE for their
child.  You say your district behaves in a Gestapo-like way.  That is
probably VERY intimidating to the parents.  When parents are truly respected
as *equal* partners in the IEP process, the need for advocates will
evaporate.

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-16 10:14:07 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

"When parents are truly respected as *equal* partners in the IEP process, the
need for advocates will evaporate."

99% of my parents are caring individuals, who want what is best for their
child/children.    Out of my caseload of approx. 70 students, 2 parents (of
different kids)  are "excessive" in their demands, so that the school spends
much  of the time, meeting the parents' needs.... I can't go into details,
but the care of the child by the parent seems to go on the "back burner" and
the need for power, for challenging the school and for attention seem to be
the main concern of the parent....    They are the type of parent that makes
an educator remark - "if they would only leave Johnny alone....."   The child
is making progress in the classroom and is a delight to work with, if only
his parent would emphasize his strengths instead of always pointing out the
negatives (to the child too).      As an Speech-Language Pathologist, I would
do anything I could to help my parents and the children, but when a parent is
SO DEMANDING (no, I have more than a caseload of 1!!, and children with
greater needs), and such a personality almost has a negative result.... dread
seeing the child, as think of parent at same time....
    Well, I have one more week of summer vacation, before school starts....I'll
end here, before school phobia starts - the more I think about caseload,
severity of cases, etc.     In 1974, - 75 on caseload, mostly speech (R's,
lispers...) then 20+ years later, same number on caseload - mostly moderate
to severe language delays, autistic, non-verbal, multiple speech errors
resulting in unintelligible speech, etc........      hmmm, same caseload
size, severity of students much more needing of services!!!     and more
documentation :D
    Happy Fall :)    Wishing you a year of calm, peace of mind, as you are
surrounded by whirlwind storms!

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-16 12:01:23 EST
From:  BigJohnEsq

The reason that parents feel the need to bring advocates with them to the IEP
process may just be that they have a real "clue what is going on in the
schools".

Having attended my fair share of IEP, represented parents in due process
hearings and in federal and state court, I can attest that the schools that
work with the parents as an equal partner are generally not the ones who see
me in these situations.  It is the District and their staff that adopts the
"we know it all" attitude regarding the child, and/or for a multitude of
reasons refuse to follow the spirit (and the letter) of the special ed and
504 laws, that have the problems.

You would be surprised by how ofter I receive a confidential call from a
classroom teacher to ask if I will help a parent because the
administration/district in their district is doing everything it can to evade
their legal and moral responsibilities.

Finally, RaTaTat (as usual) is probably right.  While the new IDEA laws imply
more accoutability, your District probably was nailed with a "failure to
evaluate" or a failure to "child find" case.  The solution is not in less
accountability, it is in what I proposed as a school board member to my
district in 1986.  That is, hire a secretary for each "x" number of teachers
so that the classroom teacher can concentrate on what they do best (working
with students one-on-one) and a lower paid secretary can take care of the
documentation (a la the medical records field).

JFB

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-16 14:12:14 EST
From:  Msc30

Hiker's  response is right on target!  No, my district has not lost a due
process hearing recently. The "gestapo-like" comment I made in my previous
message was referring to my district's administration.  WHAT A BUNCH!!!!
The parents I referred to comprise about 1% of those that I deal with.
Believe me, this small group of "defensive" parents has no justifiable
complaints about  the services  provided to their child/children.  We are an
excellent team!   Their negativeness and "attack" mentality makes it a
miserable work situation.   Their kids are great, in spite of them.  Wishing
all of you in the "trenches" a sane and successful year.  :)

SUBJECT:
reauthorization of IDEA   Date:  97-08-16 17:24:43 EST
From:  VBSSLP

I work with the pre-school population, and a number of our kids are 'speech
only'; receive only speech/language therapy.  How are those in similar
situations handling requirements by IDEA 97 that a regular ed. teacher that
could teach that child must be present at IEP meetings?  Some of these kids
aren't even in preschool anywhere, maybe a mild artic. case.  Who will be
that reg. ed rep.  We are not housed in a regular school, so I can't even
just 'borrow' a teacher.

SUBJECT:  Re:  reauthorization of IDEA   Date:  97-08-16 22:04:54 EST
From:  MLynne7923

Dear VBSSLP,
Our school system was monitored this spring and the issue of preschool IEPs
and the absence of teachers was discussed.  What we were told by this
crackerjack monitor from the SDE was that we (SLPs) are able to sign an IEP
as either teacher or administrator and SLP.  One or the other , not both.  On
the multidisciplinary report, however, we do need another SLP to sign on the
MET.  I believe this is going to help me this year with my preschool programs
and look forward to a lot less hassle.  It used to be a lot easier when I
began 35 years ago, however, our caseloads ranged from 100 to 175.  Of
course, much less paperwork.  I don't know which is better, more kids or more
paperwork.  At times, I felt as though I was teaching a choir, in order to
see everybody.  Well,I hope you all have a  great and helping school year
ahead.
MLynne

SUBJECT:  Re:Hearing Impaired Children   Date:  97-08-16 23:42:05 EST
From:  NTRPRT99

I am looking for information on children who are hearing impaired. If you
know of any colleges please let me know.  Thanks

SUBJECT:  Chat room-School Based
SLPs   Date:  97-08-16 23:42:42 EST
From:  Pmp88

A new chat room has been especially designed for school-based SLPs!!!

Who:  K-12 SLPs and Pre-K
What:  Private chat room
Where:  *slpk12chat*
When:  2nd and 4th Tuesday monthly, at 9:00 Eastern time
How:  Click on People icon, click on list chats button, click on private
room,  in the box, type in slpk12chat, then click on go and you are there!!!
If you can't find us, please IM PMP88 (Patti) or Secondslp3 (Ellen) and we
will get you there.

Good luck and Please join us for informal chats twice a month beginning Sept.
9th.  Just for starters, we may chat a while about identification of
articulations students without language or learning disabilities.  Therapy
plans, your top 10 therapy materials, and/or school start ups are only a few
of the topics that we would like to discuss.  If you have any ideas, let us
know.


SUBJECT:  Re:Chat room-School Based SL   Date:  97-08-17 07:06:27 EST
From:  ADDisREAL

I want to make sure you all know about a "formal" chat that is hosted every
week in the Personal Empowerment area (Keyword:  PEN):

Mondays

10 p.m. ET (22:00)
Speech and Language-Related Disorders Mutual Support
Facilitator: RMacI49796
Room: Mutual Support Lounge
Keyword: dis>Chat Rooms button


SUBJECT:  PhD??   Date:  97-08-17 11:18:39 EST
From:  JMLCMB

Hi. I am thinking of going back to get my PhD in Speech and Language
Disorders.  I would love to learn from others what exactly is involved in
this process.  Thanks for the help!!
Christine

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-17 18:14:40 EST
From:  Lynnebl

In the first IEP meeting I attended in which I knew the law, I ask for one
simple modification.....Preferential seating.  This modification is FREE and
doesn't require any extra time from the teacher.  Can you believe the school
fought me on it?!!  This led me to ask more questions about the education my
child was receiving...........Two years later.........we went through a due
process hearing and won.  And my child has an appropriate reading program in
which he is making great progress!!  Now I am grateful the school behaved
like the GUSTAPO!!!



SUBJECT:  Language Master   Date:  97-08-18 04:39:22 EST
From:  KATHLEE466

Does anyone know of a "language master-type" device that is used for early
reading instruction? I once saw one in a toy/educational store and would like
to purchase one. It had preprinted picture and word/sentence cards plus
blanks for recording.

Thank you,
Kathy

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 06:14:05 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

<<After reading your comments about your districts need for an extraordinary
level of documentation, it  made me wonder if your district hasn't recently
lost a due process case?  If so, it would well be that the school is reacting
to that so it might always be well prepared in case it's every challenged
again?  >>

RATATAT,

Quite the contrary!    We've never been to due process!!!  And I suppose one
reason is that we try to do what is morally, ethically, and legally right.
We are a small school system and generally have good rapport and
relationships with our parents.  It is governmental bureauocracy and the fear
of lawsuits heard about elsewhere that's causing alarm.  We want to do the
right thing but like I said in my original post we are HUMANS too.  BTW, I
now have a disabling condition - rheumatoid arthritis and have been told I
may qualify for a 504 plan.  I've jokingly remarked to my husband - that if
worse came to worse then I certainly know MY rights after 25 years in special
ed.<g>

~ Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 15:47:01 EST
From:  X52hmcx

Comments on Msc's complaints:
To say that I was upset at your remarks would be an understatement!!  I am an
certified SLP and the mother of a child needing services of a certified SLP.
All the documentation that you dread is put in place for a reason. I am sorry
that you must prepare 75 or so IEP's.  But as a parent, I only care about the
IEP you have designed for my child. Each one of those forms represents the
special abilbities and needs of a particular child.  If you cannot stand
another year of the trouble, get another job or get out of the field.
Paperwork is part of the job and is necessary.
I would guess that anyone of the parents of students you work with would
gladly do your paperwork for you if it would mean that their child would not
need your services.  I would pay the salary of a speech path if my child
could communicate normally.
Please use some empathy when dealing with parents.  Put yourself in their
shoes.  How would you feel?  What if you had received special ed services as
a child and still dealt with the hurt?  Please remember why you went into
this field in the first place!
Before I had children, I always felt for the parents in the IEP meetings.  So
many "professionals" sitting around the table and spouting an "educational
foreign language".
You can make a trememdous difference in the life of a child and in the life
of the parents of that child. What is more important than helping a person
communicate their needs and wants and affecting the enviornment around the?.
Communication is freedom!
Get the parents on your side.  Let them complain to the district about
needing more therapists.
And finally, if you were the Speech Path working with my child I would want
to do all I could to help you succeed with my child.  Please give the weak,
uncaring, loud, compliant, demanding, informed and/or informed parents a
chance.  These are our children we love and for whom we want the best.  We
expect and want the same from the teachers and therapist who work with our
kids.
Sorry, I had to vent as well.  I do wish you a great school year, for you and
your clients.

Molly's Mom

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 16:43:26 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Dear X52hmcx and other parents,
    As a Speech Path in a school serving pre-school and elem students, I read
your message with interest.   I care very much for the children I serve.
During parental meetings, I agree about the importance of using plain English
to   explain the IEP and communicate with my parents on their level.    I am
FRUSTRATED by the redundant paperwork, when forms tend to require the same
info on them, when paperwork (other than the IEP) seem to take on a HIGHER
priority than actually SEEING and WORKING with the child.  Some paperwork is
necessary, as it applies directly to the individual plan for the child, and
her progress.   The filling in other forms or paperwork doesn't help your
child - I want to work with her as often as I can....   All my evaluation
reports and IEPs are done at home - yes, my family nearly forgets who I am
especially during May and June (IEP months).....     In summary, I think some
of the frustration of being a SLP in the schools, is that sp. ed. dep't.
paperwork, medicare forms, redundant forms,  and forms that we wonder if
anybody will actually ever read can seem to take higher priority over the
working with the children.....I want what is best for  each child I see,  and
I want to work with them as often  as would be beneficial.

SUBJECT:  Re:
Phonemes&phonemic awaren   Date:  97-08-18 17:40:41 EST
From:  JBauthrep

I am looking for a copy of the LAC test, the Gort, Detroit Battery or any
other reading tests I can use in starting a free clinic for underpriveged
kids. Does anyone out there (like DoraMay) have anything I could beg or
borrow?
[e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 18:26:53 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Hiker,

Thanks so much for expressing the frustration that so many of us public
school SLPs feel.  The PRIORITY is being taken off the therapy needs of the
child and being transferred to EXCESSIVE paperwork and accountability.  27
years ago I was taught in college that ACCOUNTABILITY was a very important
component of the diagnostic and therepeutic process.  However, I think that
many public school SLP's are now being punished for the sins of a few bad
apples in the bunch.   Also, this new requirement about an M-Team meeting
before doing a re-eval (just to determine whether or not a complete reeval
needs to be done and PRIMARILY designed to have the parent a part of the
assessment team) will rob more therapy time. Why can't we just get the
parent's permission to do a re-eval and get on with it?  I rather talk all
night on the phone to a parent than have a child miss his therapy for such a
meeting!  In theory this is a good idea but all of us who have worked for
over 25 years knows that another meeting means missed therapy for some child.
It's sad to realize that everyone cares more about what's on paper rather
than what's actually being done in the therapy room.  This situation is not
unique to education but is true in other professional fields as well.  One
reason doctors do so much excessive testing and referrals is because they're
afraid of being sued for malpractice.  If we were more humane, honest,
trusting, and loving towards each other then  our society would not have had
to legislate such laws that perpetuate an endless stream of meetings and
paperwork!!!  Enough said.  Sorry to have rambled so long.

Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 20:41:50 EST
From:  Msc30

To x52hmcx (Molly's Mom).....Thankyou for commenting on  my complaints about
the excessive paperwork in my job as a public school S/L clinician.  The most
important aspect of my job IS the contact that I have with each of my
students.  I have made a difference in each child's life that I have worked
with over the past 26yrs.  I am a caring and sympathetic person and it
definitely shows in the successes I have achieved with my  students'
communication skills and my dealings with their parents.  I  KNOW the
importance of being able to communicate.  It is the basis to succeeding in
all aspects of life.  I was wondering if you had read any of the other
messages that have been posted recently about the unnecessary/redundant
paperwork involved.  Curious as to why I was the" Lucky" one to be on the
receiving end of your remarks.  I don't think the common theme of our
messages has to be spelled out for you.  Are you a working Mom?  Do you
encounter what we are all venting about.?  I wish you lived in my district so
you could fight for more s/l clinicians that we need.  Our requests seem to
be ignored.  I hope Molly is having only successes in s/l.

SUBJECT:  Re:New
IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 20:51:18 EST
From:  Msc30

Hiker.....Thankyou for your support.   I was a little shocked that I was
"singled" out for saying basically the same things that everyone else has
been complaining about.  I guess I shouldn't take it so personally, being
that I am so uncaring and all.    Besides, this computer business etc. is new
to me.  I guess I should expect anything.  Thanks again.

SUBJECT:  Home/school
visitors   Date:  97-08-18 21:23:09 EST
From:  Msc30

I'm requesting info for a friend of mine who is a home/school visitor in a
nearby district.  Since I am a recent newcomer to message boards, I wasn't
quite sure where to go for help.  Can anyone give me any info about your
district's home/school visitor/truancy....such as job description etc. or
direct me to the "right" place for info in this area.  Thankyou. :)

SUBJECT:
Re:Language Master   Date:  97-08-18 22:27:20 EST
From:  LINDA17502

Language Master and cards -available at PCI Educational Publishing
1-800-594-4263.  They also have a web site   www.pcicatalog.com.

SUBJECT:  Re:New
IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 22:58:01 EST
From:  Oops4444

Harriet and Msc30, Be careful. Although we all have our own opinions, and
mine is with yours, Ratatat has a problem with venting our feelings openly on
the boards and before you know it you will receive a TOS letter stating that
your remarks are found hostile. Through out all of the messages posted on the
spec. ed. board, I detect a problem with the teacher's having to defend
themselves with parents and vice versa.I believe that both sides have a right
to say what they want.  The real problem with this board is that
disagreements are looked down upon by Ratatat.If the parents were in the
teacher's position, I think they would complain as well about all of the
paperwork. It's really a shame that it has come to this when all you really
want to do (and should do ) is teach.

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-18 23:21:20 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Ooops,

What you say is  true.  I belong to numerous listservs and newsgroups. Making
personal attacks is called FLAMING and is against the rules on AOL..
Hopefully, Ratatat will read the post and remind us that discussion can take
place without personal attacks. I was quite active on these boards last year
(DVCMom) and she ( or WHEELS) usually would send us a reminder when things
got out of hand.  Thanks anyway.  It's been nice visiting here again and I've
printed up alot of therapy tips from some of the regulars here.   Personally
( my own opionion) is that SLPs are one of the most dedicated and caring
professionals in the educational/health-related workforce.  I feel we really
have a love for children and have a strong desire to help others.  Those who
don't are the ones that usually leave the profession after a few years and
get out of the educational field.  They don't feel it's worth the sacrifice
it puts on your time and also the heavy STRESS is another reason.

Sorry that this topic got so heated and out of hand.  Hope everyone has a
great school year!

Harriet   :o)

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-19 08:20:19 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I realize that the paper work is a very necessary part of our job.  I take
the time to explain every form I fill out to the parents.  Our team also
spends considerable time explaining test results in plain English before the
PPT meeting takes place.  This gives the parents the time to think and really
be helpful in making decisions.  Now...the problem is that the administration
of our school (which by the way is very supportive of our programs and staff)
doesn't seem to see that these things take time.  Last year our special ed
staff was told that we HAD to make all of the file copies of the IEP's.
That's when one staff member stood up and asked why the secretary couldn't do
that.  You can't imagine the flack we got.  In our building we have one
copying machine...sometimes there's a long line.  We finally stood our ground
and the special education secretary and building secretary do the copying.
We were asked to type all future IEP's (ours are on computer) and asked,
again, why a secretary couldn't do that.  The compromise on that one was that
if we could print neatly and legibly the document could be written.  I want
to create my own IEP's, but no time has been added to my schedule to allow
for typing the reports.  Plus, when I asked for a computer on which to do the
work I was told that I couldn't request a computer for anything other than
student use....Then the administrator told me I could type IEP's in the lab.
Well I tried that once.  I had third grade students reading over my shoulder
and it was both inconvenient and noisy.  So...I do my word processing at
home.  If word processing is part of my job, it seems to me that I should
have the equipment with which to do it.  So...it's not the paper work that
gets to me, it's the lack of time during the work day in which to get it
done, the lack of proper equipment and secretarial staff to complete the job.
And I agree with a previous postee, there is a lot of reduncancy on theses
forms.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Documentation   Date:  97-08-19 14:22:39 EST
From:  X52hmcx

i have worked in the past as a public school SLP.  I did not have the
caseloads that some have mentioned in their posts, but like it or not, I did
all my paperwork.  I now have the priviledge of working in a university
setting part-time.  I still hold approximately 50  placement, IEP or exit
meetings per year.  I just look at the paperwork/documentation as part of my
job.  It does take time, but the majority of the time is still spent in
actual therapy with clients.  All jobs have there ups and downs.  I still
maintain that public school is still a great placeto have a job!  Someone
mentioned that it may be dangerous to vent in this forum because parents may
misinterpret (or interpret) what is said.  I just wanted to point out that
paperwork if part of the job and if you don't like it get another position or
attempt to change it. Check with your state's professional SLP organization
to see if they are lobbying the legislature about caseload size.  Check with
your State public school organization to complain (well, maybe suggest)
regarding state guidelines and abiblity to provide adequate services.  All
administrators are afraid of parents and parent advocacy groups.  If parents
knew that their voice could change policy, we could see change for the
better.  It will need to be at state or district level, not just your school.
Work on your PR skills!!
I may not have sounded like it in my last post, but I am on your side!  I
want great services for my child, I want a great enviornment to work and I
want great possibilities for the students with whom I work!  Hang in there
and do your best!   Thanks for the work you do for children,  Molly's
Mom

SUBJECT:  Re:Documentation   Date:  97-08-19 20:29:43 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Does anyone have all of their DEC forms on computer?  We're exploring the
possibility of having everything on computer with an automatic rollover
feature to Medicaid forms.  We'd also have a daily log on the computer and be
able to download them to the medicaid secretary for billing.  Each SLP would
have a laptop and portable printer. I do most of my therapy in the classrooms
and would much rather carry a laptop around than a whole bag full of files!
It sounds like it would save a great deal of paperwork time (writing names
over and over etc.) but I'm wondering if anyone has tried anything similar?
Tracy

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-20 06:01:29 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Harriet and Msc30, Be careful. Although we all have our own opinions, and
mine is with yours, Ratatat has a problem with venting our feelings openly on
the boards and before you know it you will receive a TOS letter stating that
your remarks are found hostile.>

Oops, I'd like to clarify something.  My "job" is to make sure that the rules
of AOL are followed in this area to the best of my ability and to my best
judgement.  I'm not perfect, so at times I'm sure some think my judgement is
flawed.

AOL is not the internet, per se, in that it is a private service company, and
as such has an agreement that members "sign" when they join.  The Terms of
Service include the rules of the road which *I* agreed to enforce on these
boards when I was asked to be the area's host manager after receiving
training in the TOS rules.

Many areas of discussion can be emotional and whether or not they are
problematic can be a judgement call.  I do the best I can.

What's important to me is that people do not "Flame" others as is done with
such regularity on the internet newsgroups, and that we maintain a level of
civility.  So far, in the three years I've been involved in these boards, I
think that this standard has been maintained on the most part.

Your screen name is new to me, so I don't know what you are referring to
regarding a TOS violation.  I tend to be very sparse in my use of them.
Perhaps you have changed your screen name?

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-20 07:50:06 EST
From:  Msc30

Ratatat...I am new to the computer world and message boards(6-16-97).  When I
discovered the s/l area, I was so excited because I thought it would be great
to exchange ideas and yes even "vent" about areas in our field that are
unpleasant.  I have read various messages in other areas,too, and have seen
your screen name and advice quite frequently.  I think that's great!  Curious
to know what your background is.  I am a public school speech and language
clinician in PA.  I am about to begin my 27th yr.  Thanks for
responding.

SUBJECT:  Parent-Teacher Relations   Date:  97-08-20 08:39:18 EST
From:  WTaylor134

As both a school Speech/Language Therapist and the parent of a (ADD) child
who receives learning support, I just want to say that my own ability to work
with the parents of my students has improved drammatically because of my own
experiences as a parent.  I have gained an understanding and compassion that
I may not have had before.  I know that there are many SLPs out there who
might benefit from some empathy toward the fears and frustrations of parents.
There is an old African proverb: When two elephants fight, it's the grass
that gets trampled: (When teachers and parents don't work together, it's the
child who suffers.)  As the beginning of a new school year approaches, I
would like to extend my hopes that everyone has a great year.

SUBJECT:
subglottic stenosis   Date:  97-08-20 11:59:53 EST
From:  Barberent

I just acquired a 2.5 yo child with subglottic stenosis and laryngomalacia.
She is able to speak very well with the exception of some typical artic
probs. Respiratory stridor is evident. One ENT told the parents that there
was some vocal fold paralysis. I have not seen the medical reports. Can
anyone explain these terms a little better to me? Also, how are these
problems typically handled medically? Mom seems to get conflicting answers
from the DRs. Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:New IDEA & Documentation   Date:  97-08-20 13:02:20 EST
From:  Ratatat

Msc,

As the recent poster shared with us: "There is an old African proverb: When
two elephants fight, it's the grass that gets trampled."  I'm a mother who's
child was the "grass" when she was in second grade.  She's now going to high
school and learning well and a marvelous person.  It's been hard work for
her, for her teachers and for me.  But, as you know well worth it.

You asked for my qualifications and these are they.  I know they are enough
for lots of people who want alphabets from colleges that are specific, but
I'm quite confident that my field work and practicum more than make up for
it.

Also, I'm the managing Host and Librarian for this area, as well as a chat
host in another area.  I'm also the Parent Resource coordinator for a web
site that's under construction, and involved with the information design for
another web site in the plans; also I'm often an on-line coach for many
parents. Off-line I am the President of our local CHADD Chapter, a member of
a metro area network of ADD professionals and on a committee for CHADD
National.

And *all* of it is volunteer work.  It gives me a great deal of
pleasure.

SUBJECT:  New Speech  Clinician   Date:  97-08-20 15:46:31 EST
From:  Roniglover

 I am a new speech language clinician in the public school system and would
like any advice or activities that you can share.  I will be working at an
elementary school level and mostly with general education students with
disorders to include: language, articulation and fluency.  I would appreciate
any help. Thanks

SUBJECT:  Re:New Speech  Clinician   Date:  97-08-20 17:04:02 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
  Welcome to the field :)    My suggestion would be to hook up with a
clinician who has been in your school district for some years, and have
her/him as your mentor.....  is this Fairfax County?  large system....should
be able to find a helping person, just to talk things over, consult with each
other.....about students' needs, and new materials, tests., etc.  This person
would be valuable going over the forms and procedures that your school system
uses.   I enjoy talking with the others in my school district  (from
Alexandria Va. , now in NH) whenever we have a chance to meet, or even
sometimes on the phone, I'll call a clinician, who has a school and
population of students close to what my school is like...   Actually, I have
been doing this for (cough, cough)  23 years  , and since you are newly out
of school, I bet that there are many things that you could teach me!   Keep
confidence in yourself, you've had many years of learning, and do the best
that you can :)    Good luck, and enjoy your school!

SUBJECT:  Re: New Speech
Clinician   Date:  97-08-21 13:52:30 EST
From:  WTaylor134

Hello and welcome to a very rewarding yet challenging profession.  I agree
that hooking up with someone who can be a mentor is very good advice.  Here
are some other pearls of wisdom from someone who's been at it for awhile: 1.
keep very good records (paperwork is a grind, but very necessary and often
helpful).  2. don't try to reinvent the wheel - there are some excellent
commercially available products out there in professional catalogs (if you
don't have a lot of your own materials, see if you can borrow some to copy)
I especially like products from Linguisystems, The Speech Bin, Communication
Skill Builders, Super Duper School Co.  3. try to develop good collaborative
relationships with teachers, reading specialists, learning support personnel,
etc. This takes time, of course, but is well worth the effort!  4. enjoy and
learn FROM the students whenever possible - keep your lessons relevant to
real life/classroom needs  5. communicate frequently with parents - they can
be a valuable member of your team. 6. Good Luck!!

SUBJECT:  Re: New Speech
Clinician   Date:  97-08-21 16:53:39 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

  Hey, this is fun giving advice....may continue ad infinitum :)    Important
people in the school, besides the other teachers and specialists, are the
office secretary (ies), and the custodian......with their help, life is
easier.....and with so many students having medical needs, the school nurse
is a godsend too!
   Yes, great catalogs mentioned....you might be able to borrow some
materials from the kindergarten program for temp. usage...     excellent
advice from Taylor - previous message.... /    I also do activities outside
of school , so that my life feels like it is more balanced....    that way,
rough day at work, can do something relaxing, and refreshens the mind for the
next day~~~~
most important - smile!

SUBJECT:  Re: New Scheduling idea   Date:  97-08-21 19:00:29 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Hi friends!
I work in a Pre-K -2nd gr. school and am starting with 70 kids on my
caseolad.  We have self-contained classes inculding Preschool handicapped,
ch. 1 preschool, Autistic, Self contained SI/LD, EMH, TMH as well as 2
resource programs.  I've been mixing inclusion and pull-out for the past 5
yrs. but continued to have difficulties, primarily with pull-out due to
teachers not sending, too large of groups, kids absent/unavailable etc. so
I'm trying something new this year.
  Last Spring I asked my principal to try to group my kids into classes at
each grade level.  When I came in this yr. she handed me a list of all my
children and their teachers!!  She did the best she could and got them into 4
K classes, 5-1 classes and 2- 2nd gr. classes.  I've set up my schedule to do
all inclusion in the AM's-  I'm in each class for plenty of time to cover the
time on the IEP's of each child in the class. I have 2 afternoons reserved
for testing, meetings, and consulting. The other 3 afternoons have blocks of
time entitled- "scripting/mainstreaming preparation, K-Artic., K-language
etc."  I plan to use these blocks of time to work with individuals or small
groups as needed.  For example, I might work individually with a child while
he is learning a new sound or concept, then stop and just see him in class.
Or, I might have kids move in and out of the mainstreaming group as they
master the setting in therapy (1st "in class sessions will be when I'm in
there).  I'm really excited about the possibilities and flexibility.  What do
you think?

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-08-21 19:47:36 EST
From:  R u Niz

There is a student in our school who was diagnosed as cognitively disabled
last year.  He is 13 years old and has been receiving services for at least 8
years with a speech and language pathologist, physical therapist, and LD
teachers.  He is currently reading at about a 5th grade level , written
language is very weak, communication skills are weak--he can talk , but he
has to be "forced to interact with others", motor skills are weak, adaptive
skills are low, math skills are extremely low---2nd grade level.  His "label"
was changed last year at a re-evaluation from severe learning disability to
cognitive disability.  His parents are fighting this diagnosis and filed for
due process.  Parents brought in the results of a private evaluation--school
presented its evaluation---result: A third evaluation was done.  The results
of the third evaluation: Child has a learning disability and aphasia.

My question:  If the student's IQ results are in the range of mental
retardation (his are) and adaptive skills are very low---Child's relative
strength is in reading and major weakness in math ( we're talking about a
lack of understanding of Basic numeration concepts--can't work with coins,
tell time, add, subtract, etc)---where would aphasia fit in?

Can aphasia result in an inability to perform nonverbal tasks?  Can a person
with aphasia be stronger in language related skills than in math skills?

I don't think the due process situation has been completed yet, but I will
probably have this student this year.  I know he has a communication
disorder--I suspect Williams Syndrome, although he also matches many of the
descriptions of Asperger's.  I am concerned about "mislabeling" this student
and I don't know enough about aphasia.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

BTW--I'm a Sp-Ed teacher, not an SLP.  I read some of the previous posts.  I
never understood how an SLP could carry the caseload required.  I am in awe
of the SLP at my school.  She is the most professional and inspiring teacher
I've ever met.  When we get back to school on Monday I will ask her the same
questions and share your responses.  Thanks!

SUBJECT:  Therapy suggestions   Date:  97-08-21 20:45:21 EST
From:  Msc30

Any suggestions for improving social interactions for one of my 1st grade
students with Aspergers(also visually impaired).  This student relates much
better with adults than with his peers.  He very seldom initiates
conversations, but does respond appropriately to questions.  What classroom
activities would you recommend?

SUBJECT:  Re:Previous messages   Date:  97-08-21 20:50:05 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

TLVail - I think you must have one awesome principal!  Congratulations, and
sounds like a great program you are developing for this year.

R u ...    thanks for being an appreciative teacher..... will be interesting
to hear your SLP's responses.

SUBJECT:  Re:Therapy suggestions   Date:  97-08-21 23:46:41 EST
From:  AHStreeter

You could try some "Social Stories. " You make up script/stories for certain
times of the day, (e.g. recess, )  and lay out a script that the child can
learn through the story and follow.

SUBJECT:  Re: New Scheduling idea   Date:  97-08-22 07:08:02 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I like the sound of your idea with scheduling.  I'm going to try to do
something like it...if it will work within my schedule.  Unfortunately, my
students aren't clumped into the same groups plus I have a prek class and
third graders.  The concept sounds terrific...Keep us posted on how it works.
ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:Speaking of seminars...   Date:  97-08-22 12:23:11 EST
From:  Limkefam

My 11 year old daughter will be starting her sixth week doing the
Lindamood-Bell ADD (auditory decrimination in depth) program.  For the very
first time she can see and hear the individual sounds within words.  It has
been very difficult for her and she has moved slowly but her reading has
improved so much and her confidence is amazing.  Her spelling has also
improved a great deal, if she stops to think about endings in words and the
other rules she has practiced 5 days a week.  This direct instruction is what
she needed to become successful in reading and writing.  She comes out of the
four hours invigorated and happy with herself.  I dread having her go back to
school for fear they will burst her new bubble.  This program makes it
totally safe for the student to make mistakes.  I have been sitting in on
many of her hours and think very highly of their methods.  I'll answer any
questions that you may have from a parents point of view.

SUBJECT:  Re:Speaking
of seminars...   Date:  97-08-22 15:22:11 EST
From:  Willsons

 "I dread having her go back to school for fear they will burst her new
bubble."
I have the same concern for a student I tutored this summer. (I am an
SLP/Teacher of the Deaf.)
I think he reached such a level of frustration due to being moved on in his
reading/spelling before he was secure in his primary skills. I have held him
at his level of competence, with lots of success experiences, and small
tastes of what comes next.
I have tried to communicate that to the other adults who help him; take it
slow, allow him time to really learn each skill.
I'm sure that is easier for me to do in a therapy setting than for the
classroom teacher in a large group setting.

SUBJECT:  Lindamood-Bell   Date:  97-08-22 19:48:40 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Does anyone know if Lindamood -Bell has a web site?  I have gotten brochures
from them before but can't locate one presently.  I have an old Auditory
Discrimination in Depth kit from the 70's and still utilize it occasionally
in combination with other things.  However, I've always wanted to attend a
workshop.   Has anyone on this board attended one of their workshops?  If so,
would you mind sharing your experience with us.

Thanks,
Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:Lindamood-Bell   Date:  97-08-23 09:43:19 EST
From:  Lmazzola

Harriet:

Lindamood Bell does have a web site, but it's under construction (and has
been for the past several  months) There is nothing on it, except telling you
to come back soon! My daughter is currently in their program and I am on
their mailing list. Let me know if you want me to look up where the training
seminars are taking place. I have the last mailing that lists summer training
- I think it may having listings through Sept., I'll have to check. Although
I haven't gone through the training myself, YET, I hope to do so soon. -
Lisa

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-08-23 16:13:08 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Ru- You say he's reading on about the 5th gr. level.  For a 13 yr. old that's
not too shabby!  It doesn't sound like he's an overall "flat" kid which we
tend to see with cognitive delays (Educably Mentally Impaired where I come
from).  How is his reading comprehension?  If he's just able to "say the
words" when reading, then the language  impairment may certainly be involved.
I would talk to the psychologist who tested him to look at specific strengths
and weaknesses within his test profiles in order to get a better
understanding of him.  Not so much for the label, but in order to figure out
how best to teach him.  I personally feel that when a child shows a great
deal of variability in testing, even though the "end result" comes out in the
cognitively impaired range, you need to do more to figure out what's going
on.  Often children with both visual spaital and auditory processing or
language problems will score low- especially on the WISC-III.  Will the label
determine what program he goes in?  IF this is your primary concern, the team
should look at his specific skills rather than a label to determine
appropriate placement.  BTW- We've never used Aphasia to describe a
disability in a child unless they've had a stroke or other infarct.  Do
others?

SUBJECT:  ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-23 16:18:04 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Help!  I just found out that I have a beautiful 5 yr. old child on my
caseload who speaks little English and will be in a regular kindergarten
class.  She was tested in her native language (Spanish) and qualifies for
both SI and resource services with an identification of Preschool
Delayed/Atypical.  I speak no Spanish and the county has been trying to find
a bilingual therapist to no avail.  Since she'll be in a regular
kindergarten, my gut tells me I could be of help to her but I'm not sure of
the ethics involved.  I'd certainly be better than no help at all- I
think...Have any of you been in this situation?

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-23 20:35:57 EST
From:  Willsons

Yes. He was a third grader. I do not speak Spanish. I scheduled him with a
friendly, lively group of peers. He learned quickly from watching and
listening to them. I used pictures and written words in all our activities.
We asked him to teach us Spanish words too, so we all experienced the
challenge of learning another language. There are a few materials in the
Speech & Language catalogs but many are either English or Spanish and not
both. There is a First 1000 Words picture dictionary that combines both. I
attempted to contact a nearby university ESL program for information, but
before I made any progress there, this boy and his family suddenly moved back
to their home country. I'm glad I acted quickly to try to provide support,
and I hope I made a difference.

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-24 08:38:37 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I hope your school district intends to provide some ESL instruction (which
does not need to be done by someone who speaks Spanish), in addition to the
special education instruction being provided.  I guess I'm curious, even
though this child was tested in her native language, how were goals written
for her performance in English?  We also know that children who are young and
bilingual sometimes have difficulty learning the two languages, especially if
a learning problem is present.  In our school district, special education
testing would not have been done until proficiency in English was
demonstrated.  The primary reason for this is that our speech paths are NOT
ESL teachers and shouldn't be.  Also, as I said, I suspect your goals are for
English language skills...not Spanish speaking skills.

In the meantime...I agree with the previous postee.  Put this child in a
small group.  I do flexible grouping within the classroom for a child like
this.  In other words, I would have some children who are good speakers in
the group as well as my speech kiddos.  Encourage the team to set up a
student buddy system for this child whereby other children are her buddies in
play and learning, perhaps on a weekly basis.  Use good photo pictures to
develop vocabulary and involve the family.  Perhaps all of them are learning
English and this could be a resource to you.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-24 12:41:28 EST
From:  VBSSLP

The child that doesn't speak English but has been identified as
speech/language impaired can be partly served by giving the parents language
facilitation techniques and suggestions.  She needs to get a good solid first
language, Spanish, but reality says that English is the language of the
school system so she will obviously need support learning English on top of
any problems she has in her native language.  Unfortunately our local school
system doesn't provide ESOL services for kindergarteners because the
philosophy is that regular K is such a language rich environment.  I disagree
with this, and feel they do need that support.  Hiring a Spanish  SLP is
great for this kid, but what about the Chinese or Russian child, etc...so
that can't be the answer for these situations in general........

SUBJECT:
Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-24 20:45:41 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Hiring a Spanish  SLP is great for this kid, but what about the Chinese or
Russian child, etc...so that can't be the answer for these situations in
general........>

I forget the percentage of the population in the US that speaks Spanish as
their native language, but it's high.  Of course, in certain parts of the
country its very high.

You should know that the school really is required to provide the IDEA
services in the child's native language... how else can she benefit?

SUBJECT:
Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-25 20:55:51 EST
From:  VBSSLP

 Ratatat....How is that realistic...can our system of public education afford
to hire, supposing there were available, therapists, teachers, or even just
native speakers of the 100's of language possibilities-I know there are 80
languages spoken in our county alone.  We have shortages of SLP's period,
much less one (or 80) that is bilingual.  I think it would be great to be
able to serve these kids that way, but I know that my system cannot find
someone to fill all these diverse needs regardless of funds because they are
not out there to hire in many instances.....i.e. the Huganese child, the
remote dialect from Russia, Ebo, etc....Spanish is a relative piece of cake.
We have to have alternate strategies to help these kids, so that regardless
of the language that appears the next day, you have a way to do that in
place.

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-25 21:24:52 EST
From:  Smurph826

     In NYC, we service children who speak many different languages and, as
we all agree, there are just not enough bilingual therapists to handle the
job.  We, the monolingual therapists, take these children onto our caseloads
legally by adding an Interim Service Plan (ISP) to their IEP's.This is a
three page form that redefines their needs in terms of what we can do for
them in English.  This ISP remains on the IEP until a bilingual therapist can
be located.  This way we recognize that the need is for Spanish, Cantonese,
Swahili, etc. but that until that therapist can be found, the English
speaking therapist will provide service.  The parents AND an interpreter MUST
sign the ISP and, of course, if the parents or the Board of Ed locate the
needed therapist, the ISP is removed.   It's not the perfect answer to the
situation but some help is better than none.

SUBJECT:  new scheduling idea   Date:  97-08-25 22:11:55 EST
From:  Lolli04

I like your idea! I wrote a while back (help! huge caseload) about my
scheduling problems. Thought someone might like to know how my situation
turned out. I wrote a letter to the Superintendent and the School Board
President outlining my caseload and how it was surpassing the ISBE's(Illinois
State Board of Ed) limit on service delivery units.(mild=1, mod.=2,sev=3)
Illinois' limit is 100 units and I am starting out the year with 100 units
and only 56 students. Usually my caseload grows to 80 students. Anyway, I
then called each school board member, two who have SI students, and asked if
they had been spoken to about our problem.  Today was our first day back, and
our Pupil Services Person tells me they hired someone for 3 and 1/2 days!
I sure wish I would have grouped my kids last year. Now they are already in
scattered classrooms! I'll have to be creative. I'm excited about getting
into some classrooms finally, at least for my severely language/learning
disabled kids. The teachers will be glad too, I hope.

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-26 15:24:43 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

At least you have an interpreter.  In many school districts, especially those
with low incidences of bilingual students, there are no interpreters.

SUBJECT:
Re:new scheduling idea   Date:  97-08-26 16:26:08 EST
From:  X52hmcx

Way to go Lolli!!  I am so glad that the "powers that be" responded to your
sharing the facts!  Hope all goes well this school year.

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI      Date:  97-08-26 16:43:33 EST
From:  Smurph826

   Not to give the wrong impression, we have to find our own interpreter.  We
can use another teacher or administrator, family member or acquaintance.  It
must be shown that the reason for the ISP was fully explained to the parent
in his native language and that the parent understands his/her options.


SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-26 22:17:15 EST
From:  Ratatat

< Ratatat....How is that realistic...can our system of public education
afford to hire, supposing there were available, therapists, teachers, or even
just native speakers of the 100's of language possibilities-I know there are
80 languages spoken in our county alone. >

I'm just repeating what the federal law says!  If your school can't follow it
then they can request a waiver from the state.  If the won't follow it,  I
hope one of the foreign speaking parents doesn't figure out her child's
rights are to be taught in a way that he/she can understand.

SUBJECT:  individual
vs group   Date:  97-08-27 15:31:04 EST
From:  Bre5

I would like to get the opinion of speech therapists. My son is almost 10 and
has had the same CELF-R scores for 3 years, except for going down this past
year in Receptive Language from 74 to 63 (score, not percent). His Expressive
stayed the same at 70, and the Goldman-Friscoe results were "severe
unintelligbility in conversation". He has also been diagnosed with severe
CAPD and both dyspraxia and dysarthria have been suggested. He has only been
getting group therapy twice a week in school with kids who have more mild
problems. I have decided that it is time to ask for more intensive individual
therapy to try to get better results. (He is a cooperative boy and manages to
get average grades with lots of help at home, and kids and teachers like
him.) In your opinion, is this a child who needs individual speech therapy?
How could I prove that he needs this? I feel that he is not getting what he
needs and will continue to not improve if he just keeps on with more of the
same. I know his school SLP is already overworked and it would be hard to fit
this in, so I'm not sure what to do.
I would also like to know if anyone's school has afterschool speech therapy
so that students don't have to be pulled from the classroom. I was thinking
of trying to request that. Why couldn't speech therapists start work later
than teachers and instead be there after school for scheduled times, at least
for kids who ned multiple speech therapy sessions?

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-27 18:47:53 EST
From:  TLVAIL

And what should the school system do if no bilingual therapists can be found?
We are in a relatively rural area.  The special Ed. director has tried to
contract with someone but has been unable.  Thanks for all your suggestions
though-  Our plan thus far is to work as a team- the ESL teacher,
Kindergarten teacher, Resource teacher and SLP-  Between us we should be able
to help.  BTW- the child's speech/language eval was in spanish but the goals
are for English. For the IQ testing, the directions were interpreted.  Her
educational goals are also in English.  I have a hard time with this because
I think it's unfair to label a child as handicapped if indeed a linguistic or
cultural barrier exists but I also want to help this child in any way we can.
I know that as children learn a 2nd language we often see a lag in the first
language.  Is it better to wait until they've been in the country for 2 yrs.
before testing and "waste" presious time if the child does have a disability
or is it better to go ahead and work with them when they're young????

SUBJECT:
Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-27 18:55:28 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Dear Bre-
I don't think the issue should be whether you're child is getting individual
or group therapy but whether or not his goals are being met.  If they are
not, you should ask to meet with his SLP and discuss the reasons.  If your
son has a great deal of motor involvement, he needs to have small units of
practice on a daily basis.  Does the SLP give you things to work on at home?
Whatever you do, please approach this with a partnership/problem solving
approach with your sons therapist.  He will benefit if the two of you have a
good working relationship.

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-27 19:27:14 EST
From:  TAWhit

I think it's very important to remember that the CELF is NOT designed to
measure progress. The authors of these tests are very firm about that and the
tests are being abused when used to measure progress. They are merely
instruments to initially quantify the problem and make a diagnosis. Progress
SHOULD be measured in classroom success, not a ridiculous retest score. You
are being misled if that is how the SLP is determining your child's progress,
unless she/he is teaching directly to the test.

Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:new scheduling idea   Date:  97-08-27 20:53:56 EST
From:  LINDA17502

Lolli, I am also an SLP who works in an Illinois school district.  In the
district I work at, all the  sp ed teachers have caseload limits, except for
SLPs.  I have a 1993 speech/language manual from ISBE which lists max units
of severity.  I was under the impression (per reports from SLPs in other area
school districts)  that the max units were only a recommendation and that
school districts may choose to ignore them.  Also, I tried to call the # on
the manual to get an updated version and no one answers.  Do you have a
current phone #?  If you have any further info as to whether ISBE max units
are a recommendation vs. requirement, please advise.  Thanks in advance.

SUBJECT:
Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-28 09:56:15 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Dear Bre,
There are some missing pieces to your profile.  If your child's cognitive
piece shows significant delays than he may be doing the best possible for
himself regardless of individual or group therapy forums.  If this is a child
with very average overall cognitive (intelligence) than you have a different
story.  Also, as previously posted, has he been making appropriate gains on
the goals on his IEP?  Standardized measures, such as the CELF are usually
used for diagostic purposes, not as standards for progress.  However, I
should add that your child has been keeping pace with the demands of the test
as he has aged.  In other words, in a year, his standard scores have remained
constant.  I would be much more concerned if his scores had dropped 15 point
or more.  Look at the IEP goals and progress on them.

SUBJECT:  Implications
for speech Rx   Date:  97-08-28 16:29:40 EST
From:  Msc30

Hi fellow SLPs,
     I'm back in the swing of things once again.  I had posted a message in
late July about testing suggestions for one of my students.  This 4th grade
student(CA=9-2) was referred for a pysch eval. due to ongoing academic
difficulties particularly in the area of reading and listening comp.  Results
of her WISC-III are within the low average range of intellectual
functioning....V=82, P=96,full scale=87.  Curriculum based assessment in rdg.
indicates instructional level at approximately grade 3.  This student does
not meet the diagnostic criteria of the PA. Dept. of Special Ed. to be
considered exceptional.  Listening comprehension weaknesses at this time have
not affected achievement.  A speech & language eval was requested to assess
the possibility of language based difficulties.   So far I've administered
the following: The Listening Test, Language Processing Test-revised, Test for
Auditory Comprehension of Language-revised, and a language sample.  Her
receptive language is age appropriate as measured on the TACL-R. Many of you
suggested The Listening Test, these are her standard scores: Main Idea=76,
Details=79, Concepts=83, Reasoning=65, Story comp.= 83 and Total=74.  Average
range is 85-115.  Results of the LPT-R (average85-115ss):  Associations=59,
Categories=72, Similarities=91, Differences=101, Multiple Meanings= 63,
Attributes= 63and overall total =76.  A language sample indicates age
appropriate artic, grammar, and syntax.  She is able to maintain a topicof
conversation; however, frequent use of filler words such as "stuff", "um" are
evident in conversational speech.  Also some disorganized thoughts are  noted
in spontaneous speech.  I would appreciate any comments regarding my intent
to enroll her in s/l program(agree/disagree),  suggestions for IEP goals, and
the need for any additional s/l testing.( such as WORD test or Test of
Problem Solving).  Her MDE is next Friday.  Thankyou!

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs
group   Date:  97-08-28 20:05:41 EST
From:  Bre5

To ShellyHL and TAWhit,
Thanks for your responses. What I understood from your posts is that the CELF
does not measure progress, and that he is improving if his scores stay the
same because of the peers he is measured against? Does that mean he can never
get better than his starting score and her job is to make sure he at least
stays the same as he is continuing to be compared against his peers? My
question is why would the SLP test him every year with the CELF and other
tests? Does this mean, also, that the "severe" category he is in is all I can
hope for?  I understand that my son has made progress, definitely!, but I am
hoping he will get out of the "severe" category and into the normal range for
speech. His IQ scores show him to be above average in all visual skill
subtests and below average in verbal subtests so that his overall score is
average. Shouldn't that mean that he should be able to attain an average
speech and language ability with enough work and therapy?

SUBJECT:  Re:Tongue
Thrust   Date:  97-08-28 20:35:17 EST
From:  Rosie495

Hi MM!
 I  have used a program called "Swallow Right".  I can't remember the author
off hand.  It was good--had a children's version and an adult therapy
program.  Hope this helps! Colleen

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-28 22:36:57 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

If there is a statistically significant gap between verbal IQ and performance
IQ with performance IQ being the higher score then this is usually a good
indicator of an auditory processing disorder and language learning
disability..  Please scroll down on this Board until you get to central
auditory processing disorders (CAPD).  In our state if there is not a
significant discrepancy between language skills and IQ ( -16 points) then
language is assumed appropriate for his expected level of performance and he
would not qualify for language services. If a central auditory processing
disorder is suspected then he should be referred to an audiologist who does
this type of testing.  His articulation disorder is another story.  How long
has he been in therapy?  Is his oral structure and function adequate for
speech purposes?   A good oral - peripheral examination is a definite MUST.
Does he have dysarthria or apraxia?   A lot of unanswered questions which
makes it difficult to do an on-line assessment.  I suggest you meet with your
child's SLP and I feel  sure she should be able to answer your questions for
you.

~Harriet

SUBJECT:  Starting services inthe fall   Date:  97-08-29 16:28:30 EST
From:  MareCash

Here's a question to all the school-based SLP's out there. Do you all take a
week or two in the beginning of the school year to do all the "stuff" that
goes along with our jobs (evaluating/screening new students, screening
Kindergarteners, observing students in classrooms, setting up schedules,
etc).
 The resource room teachers in my building already have their schedules set -
school starts next week. Of course, they are not allowed over 20 students on
their caseloads - I have 73. The teachers in my school are not happy that I
don't plan to start therapy until all my duties are done - probably a good
two weeks after school starts. The other therapists in our district also take
these two weeks, but the person who had the job before me only took a couple
of days. How she did that I don't know. Last year was my first year i nthis
school and there were grumblings tehn, but they let it go because it was my
first year adn I knew none of the kids.
I haev called a speech dept meeting so we can maybe come up with a policy for
this, but aI am interested in what other  districts are doing. Thanks for any
help!

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-29 17:33:34 EST
From:  TAWhit

Bre5 -

I don't know why the SLP would give the CELF every year unless she is just
not well versed in the use of standardized instruments. I work in a huge
school district and provide assistance to over 50 SLPs in my area and still
have to preach this to many of them yearly. Part of it is comfort level. The
SLP may feel she needs to quantify progress with a number. Not sure.

Re: Will the score always be low? Will your child ever get out of the severe
range? I think that you, the SLP and the teachers who work with your child
should set a long range goal or outcome for your child. I wouldn't tie it to
a score on a test. I would expect it to be an educational outcome such as:
Reading and understanding grade level science textbooks.  Explaining grade
level science concepts.  Reading on grade level with X amount of individual
assistance.  The SLP needs to work on things that will make your child
successful in those academic areas. The things she works on need to be the
language-based things that will contribute to your child's success -
preferably language learning strategies that will cross academic subjects.
When your child is able to do the work with a minimum of outside support and
can maintain average grades in those classes - THEN I would say the language
impairment is mild to non-existent. That is not to say that in the future
other class and curriculum demands may not tax your child's language system.
If that occurs, your child should immediately be pulled back in for service.
Language demands change from class to class and teacher to teacher. I know
few language learning disabled children who are "fixed" just as children who
exhibit learning disabilities don't get "fixed". They learn strategies to get
through the material.

Sorry so long. Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe fal   Date:  97-08-29 19:36:51 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Normally I start my regular services the day after Labor day.  Our students
began school on August 27.  However, I just broke my foot...in school and
it's slowing me down a bit.  I will start on Thursday instead.  I have
already met with some students and screened all new entries.  I have also
done all of my PPT scheduling for the year.  I try to start as soon as
possible.  I see as many students as possible before I set up my regular
schedule.

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-29 19:39:54 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I agree with Terrie.  Set reasonable, attainable goals for your child with
some long term ones to help you define your direction.  This will be a good
way to chart your program and set progress points.  Think about what you
really want this child to DO.  I only use standardized tests for triennial
reviews and in some severe cases, not even for those.

SUBJECT:  Re:individual
vs group   Date:  97-08-29 19:53:14 EST
From:  Bre5

Terrie,
If the SLPs in your district don't test, how do they know if the therapy is
being successful? Maybe it's the goals I need to work on, like the examples
you gave. My son has the same goals every year, such as "He will increase the
production of k, g, s, z in his sentences." How would you measure if this
goal was successful? His goals are repeated the next year along with the same
or lower CELF score.
Also, my son's CELF-R RECEPTIVE score just went up for the first time ever
after 8 weeks of the Fast ForWord computer therapy. It went from overall
score of 63 (May 97, severe impairment, 1st percentile) to overall score of
82 (Aug. 97, mild impairment, 12th percentile). Do you feel that it is
invalid to use a test in this way, to show if a certain therapy had any
results? What do you think are the chances that this "improvement" will carry
over into real life?

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-08-29 20:33:02 EST
From:  Toezap

We (meaning our district's SLPs) were told several years ago by our state
coordinator for SLP services, that our IEP dates were to start on the first
day of school and so were our services. She suggested that we have several
very large groups each day, so that we could say we were serving the kids,
then do the work on establishing the schedule and all the other duties with
the rest of the day. I just don't think you can even do that until after the
first few days of chaos. I began by visiting all the classrooms in which I
had kids and spending a few minutes with them at "organizational times" (ie
when they weren't doing direct teaching). All our referrals now go through a
building -based review team before they are accepted for testing, so that
slows up our need to test everyone right away...with kindergarteners, unless
something severe, we usually suggest the teacher take a few weeks to get to
know them before referring. All I can suggest from experience is that you try
to make some sort of contact with the students as soon as possible and
document it through your normal attendance taking procedures.

SUBJECT:  Re:
beginning of school year   Date:  97-08-29 20:47:12 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

   Greetings!   The school year has begun this past week.  It will indeed
take me several weeks to "get organized".... have spent the time so far
xeroxing IEPs that I never received from the Sp Ed. teacher on a child's
grade level, sending paperwork on students who moved over the summer, had a
consultant visit for my Hearing Impaired student, starting the Medicaid forms
to record my interactions pertaining to each child, etc.
    In my school district, we screen all the first graders for their
hearing....
which I will do by myself for about 125 students...it is better to complete
that, as once start therapy schedule, won't have "extra time" needed for
large screening numbers...  we have tried teams, and go to each other school,
but either approach takes time.
    Scheduling the students takes awhile, as I wait until Title 1, and other
services decide their slots of time.... as needed....and that takes several
days to check with each teacher involved to make sure there is no hidden
reason not shown on the classroom schedule why that time isn't good.....
Sometimes, the classroom teachers might adjust their classroom schedules
after the first week of school to teach the subjects in the best time
slot....Once I let a teacher know the therapy time, then I don't like to
change it, so would rather take a little more time developing my schedule,
and have it be accurate, than to need to change it after a week or so....
    I may take some of my more severe students sooner to check on their present
levels, but overall, I expect therapy to start in about 2 weeks.  The
beginning of the year does take time (our IEPs are done in May/June), but
with giving oneself a bit of time to get organized, it seems to pay off down
the road.  Meetings with new parents, observations, etc. are some of the
beginning of the year activities to start up therapy...    Wishing you a good
school year :)

SUBJECT:  Re:ESL/SI   Date:  97-08-29 22:39:36 EST
From:  VBSSLP

Regarding what the law says.........I understand that.  What I am trying to
say is that those of us there, in the trenches, serving large caseloads etc.,
etc., etc., are always looking for ways we can help the kids we have right
then, right there, and developing some strategies to deal with languages
other than English until our administration can locate that SLP to deliver
services in the Yoruba language.  The last thing in the world I want to do is
deny any child their rights, break the law.  The first thing I want to do is
help the child.

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-30 15:49:16 EST
From:  TAWhit

Bre5 -
SLPs know they are making progress if what they are doing has an impact on
classroom performance - which is the ultimate goal for all children in the
educational system. I agree that an objective written as you described it is
immeasurable and will be repeated every year if it is not quantified in a way
that CAN be measured. An articulation objective should not just say
"increase" but should outline what that increase should be - Will the child
master it at the sentence level with 80% accuracy? Will he master it while
doing oral reading in the classroom with 90% accuracy? Words like increase
and decrease on IEPs are useless if there isn't a tight way to measure
progress.  Maybe if your child's IEP were written with tighter objectives and
criterion for mastery - you and the SLP would feel more comfortable measuring
progress without a test and the IEP WOULD change every year.

Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:individual vs group   Date:  97-08-30 15:52:02 EST
From:  TAWhit

Bre5 - And the next part of your question. I DON'T believe that test should
be used to measure progress. And carryover into your child's real life needs
to be PLANNED - even to the point of writing IEP objectives that deal with
carryover of learned skills into the classroom environment. Children would
not be language disordered if they could carry over skills without help.
Children without language disabilities don't need help with this - our kids
do - and they need to be taught to do it. Carryover does not happen by
itself.
Terrie

SUBJECT:  starting services in fall...   Date:  97-08-31 00:15:02 EST
From:  Beanie7783

MareCash..I know the SLP's that have regular Ed. caseloads where I work do
not start for at least a few weeks..If you are geting bad vibs from the
teachers..you may need to talk to your principal, get her/his support and
understanding ..then have a teacher inservice ..including your job
responsiblities and starting times..I service special ed...if I am familiar
with my classes I'll start the 2nd week..many of my teachers do not want to
see SLP's  the first week! I don't think 2 or 3 weeks is an unreasonable time
to start with a large caseload...good luck..Beanie

SUBJECT:  Re:starting services
in fall   Date:  97-08-31 11:27:26 EST
From:  TAWhit

Unless your student's IEPs start the third week of school, they technically
should be getting service immediately. Won't be a problem until you find a
parent who knows their child's rights. The PR's not too great for the SLP and
their overall program when they feel the need to take several weeks to get
started.

Just a thought - Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe fal   Date:  97-08-31 12:57:11 EST
From:  TLVAIL

This is a tough issue-  In the past, when I worked in schools where the SLPs
did hearing screenings, we often didn't start therapy until 3 weeks after
school started.  I don't think it's fair, or legal, to say a child is going
to be seen a certain frequency of time on the IEP then not start for 3 weeks
after school is in session.  I've tried to make my schedule with bog blocks
of time open to do things needing to be done and still start therapy. I work
in the classrooms and this year the teachers asked me to wait a week so they
could get their schedules worked out and the kids into a routine.  I still
went in but mostly observed my kids and helped out where needed.

SUBJECT:
Implications for Speech Rx   Date:  97-08-31 17:14:30 EST
From:  Msc30

Any ideas or suggestions for my message posted 8/28?  Thankyou... you're
input will be truly appreciated.   :)

SUBJECT:  kindergarten sceening    Date:  97-08-31 17:59:35 EST
From:  Vghoops

hi, I'm currently faced with screening 6 kindergarten classes in a short
amount of time.  Does anyone have a good and QUICK screeening tool that that
has proved sucessful?  I would appreciate any input you might have. Thanks,
Sharon

SUBJECT:  Re:Implications for speech Rx   Date:  97-09-01 08:29:31 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Without knowing the child...it looks like you have a youngster who is having
difficulty with language USE.  The ability to see relationships between words
(look at your LPT scores) is low, even for this child's ability it seems.
Re:  the TACL-R, I believe that it is only normed to 8-11.  Anyway...how does
this child do in classroom activities involving stringing ideas together
(e.g. brainstorming on a topic, outlining similarities and differences,
comparing and contrasting, predicting based on information given)?  My guess
is that these would be areas of difficulty and if they are they would go
along with your testing and could be the basis for your goals.  Also, look at
rate of response time in the classroom.  Some kiddos who use fillers are
buying themselves time to formulate their responses.  You may need to help
make some classroom modifications to help make this child more successful.
One question...does this child have a history of ear problems?  Just a
thought.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:Implications for speech R   Date:  97-09-01 10:33:57 EST
From:  Msc30

Dear Shelley,
     Thankyou for your input.  The TACL-R is normed thru 9-11. Also this
student does not have a history of ear infections.  She passed her recent
hearing screening at school.  Last years's teachers report that receptively
she appears to understand directions or input but the output is not always
pertinent to the input.  She also needs additional time to process verbally
presented info before responding.  On the Wechsler Individual Achievement
Test the student had difficulty with inference and detail  ?s, sequencing,
and comparing & contrasting ?s.  I guess my confusion here is it a reading
problem or a language based difficulty impacting these areas of reading.
This sweet girl is in that "gray" area, where she doesn"t qualify for Spec.
Ed. placement , such as learning support/resource room , but has a page of
"needs" in order to be more successful in the school setting.  Thak you
again.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-01 15:07:46 EST
From:  Mdmk19

We dont start seeing the children for therapy until October 1. This gives us
enough time to screen, evaluate, meet with parents, develop I.E.P.'s,
schedule etc.

SUBJECT:  Have a great year   Date:  97-09-01 15:42:51 EST
From:  MareCash

Thanks to everyone's advice on starting services. It is interesting to seehow
much diversity there is even on this small board. I am going to suggest a
district meeting of SLP's - there are 9 of us, to come up with some sort of
policy.

Anyways, I go back to work tomorrow. And to those of you joining me, and to
those who have already returned - have a great year.

I also wanted to share a couple of resources I recently purchased that I
think are great:

Books Are For Talking Too  -  Comm SkillsBuilders
Language LEssons in the Classroom - Thinking Publications
Phonogroup  - Thinking Publications
Storymaking - Thinking Publications


SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-01 16:35:19 EST
From:  TAWhit

Wow - Oct 1 to start therapy! That's an incredible break in service. You are
asking for trouble.

SUBJECT:  Re:Implications for speech R   Date:  97-09-01 17:33:15 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

It looks like this youngster has difficulty even when reading is not needed.
Look at your test results on the LPT and the Listening Test...where no
reading is involved.  When reading is involved the skill usage is probably
worse.  Look at some teacher notes and talk to the teachers to see how this
child does in small and large group discussions.

SUBJECT:  Re:starting services
in fall..   Date:  97-09-01 18:30:18 EST
From:  MRogers140

Teachers historically think we don't work.  I have been a public school
speech-language pathologist for most of 33 years and it has always been a
problem.
I advise new therapist to always walk fast and carry a clip board and never
sit down in the lounge except to eat.  Also don't let people hear you making
phone calls that aren't related to school.   People assume if they come in
the lounge and you are sitting you have been there all day.
       Also, following someone that everyone liked, who was at a school for a
long time is hard and it takes time to be accepted.  It is not the same as if
you were just another grade teacher.


SUBJECT:  Re:Implications for speech R   Date:  97-09-01 18:37:46 EST
From:  MRogers140

I think that you have a language problem that is impacting on reading.
Reading is after all language inprint.  I think if you address these problems
as language problems it will make a positive impact on this students
educational performance and that is what you want to do.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting
services inthe f   Date:  97-09-01 21:34:40 EST
From:  Lolli04

I'm with mdmk19. I don't start therapy until around October 1. I spend the
first 4 days of school at pre-school screenings and also 2 days at the end of
September. In between, I screen all Kindergartners (8 classes),  all NEW
students transferring from another district, and any students I have on a
rescreen list from the previous year due to developmental errors the year
before. I have one building of 950 students and one of 550 students, and a
VERY HUGE mobility rate. Most teachers end the year with less than half of
their starting class list! I do A LOT of screening! Anyway, after all that
screening, I have to test the ones that qualify, and hold the MDC/IEP
meetings and then schedule all of these little ones! I haven't run into a
parent who has complained yet, but where I am, not many know their rights. It
is really sad in a way. My situation would be better, I'm sure, if some
parents put pressure on our special ed department. Oh well.

SUBJECT:  Re:new
scheduling idea   Date:  97-09-01 21:55:24 EST
From:  Lolli04

Linda17502,
Sorry it took so long to respond. Busy with beginning of the year stuff
(getting to bed early!) I was referring to the 1993 ISBE manual, I think it
is the latest one. I don't believe those are mandates, probably
recommendations like you've been told. I just think it worked for me  to
quote the service delivery units because two of our school board members have
Speech students and they are two of my most involved parents. They knew when
their children were having speech and when they were  missing it but they
didn't know it was because we were overloaded. Their students would come to
me and say my mom asked me why I didn't have speech yesterday. My replies of
"I was at a meeting, I was testing someone, I was at preschool screenings,
etc. satisfied the parents because they didn't realize that if we weren't so
understaffed, I would be able to make up these sessions with their students.
When they became informed of our caseloads, they understood. Thank goodness
two board members had SLI children!

SUBJECT:  Recommended publication   Date:  97-09-01 23:25:09 EST
From:  VCB44

I would like to add a publication to your list.  I purchased this book at our
state convention in April and hope to use it a lot during this school year.
I heard a fantastic presentation by the authors a couple of years ago, before
they published the book.  Their book is just out and I think it is really
going to be very useful, particularly for use in the classroom.

Language Strategies for Children - from Thinking Publications

SUBJECT:
Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-02 05:52:44 EST
From:  Ratatat

<This is a tough issue-  In the past, when I worked in schools where the SLPs
did hearing screenings, we often didn't start therapy until 3 weeks after
school started.  I don't think it's fair, or legal, to say a child is going
to be seen a certain frequency of time on the IEP then not start for 3 weeks
after school is in session. >

I wonder why schools seem to set up IEP to have their annual reviews all at
the same time?  Wouldn't staggering them somehow help with this crush of
reviews/re-evals/screenings?  In our district all screening for incoming/new
students is done sometime during the summer, either just after school gets
out, or just before classes begin.  There is one site for all students in the
district and screening is done by all SLPs in the district during a one or
two day period.

I would worry about a delay too, because ALL students with an IEP are
supposed to have one in force on the first day of school, and no delay in
services is acceptable, or permissible according to IDEA.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting
services inthe f   Date:  97-09-02 16:42:57 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I'm just curious...how many of you out there still screen all kindergarten
students at the start of school?  I haven't done that in years...no time.  I
do ask the kindergarten teachers to give me a list of the kiddos they want me
to screen.  They do a terrific job.  After all, they are communicating with
the students everyday.  Also, it saves me talking to the abundant numbers of
very average students.

Our IEP's state that therapy will begin the first week of September.  Since
school starts before Labor Day that usually gives my about one week to do the
scheduling and rescheduling to get started.  We are very up front with the
parents about this...no surprises.  Plus, I do see larger groups and do some
observations and consultations during that first week of school.

SUBJECT:
Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-02 17:09:21 EST
From:  SpchDr

<<I would worry about a delay too, because ALL students with an IEP are
supposed to have one in force on the first day of school, and no delay in
services is acceptable, or permissible according to IDEA.>>

I understand the concept behind this, BUT....is it feasible?  In an ideal
world, there would be enough slps to go around; caseloads would be
manageable; schedules would be written WITHOUT the benefit of white-out the
first day of school; paperwork would reflect what we need to keep track of
progress and not what is needed for a possible due process hearing; there
would be time built-in to allow for new screenings/testing/mdc's/teacher and
parent consultations; kids could actually be seen for therapy in groups no
larger than three.......wait, I'm starting to get giddy here.  I just see no
sense in breaking one's back to adhere to the letter of the law, when the
spirit needs time to get going.  Granted, October seems a little late to me,
too, but then, I don't work there or have any idea what circumstances they
face.  I always tried as hard as I could to get things under control and into
the schedule as quickly as possible, getting it down to one week by the time
I left the last public school I was in.  You could hold the IEP's in front of
my nose (like a carrot), but I just couldn't go any faster than that, not and
do a thorough job.

Where I work now, the supervisors decide the class lists and assign
therapists (speech, ot, pt)  to each class before we even get there.  The
first week of work is spent on in-services and teacher-therapist planning
times. (I work in a birth-5 private agency that contracts with local school
districts, btw.)  Wouldn't it be great if the public schools would schedule a
week before school started as "workshop"  and/or "screening" days for getting
a handle on paperwork, meeting with teachers, developing a beginning
schedule, screening new students?  I love the idea of a team-screening
approach at one school that was mentioned earlier....how wonderful!  I wonder
if spreading annual reviews throughout the year would be all that feasible;
you'd still have to meet at the end of the school year to decide what to do
next year anyway, wouldn't you?  Or could that be done away with?  If that
was the case, it would make a BIG difference at the end of the year.  So many
questions; so little time.......You know, the first person who figures this
stuff out will be a millionaire, don't you?  AND hold our undying
gratitude.......

Good luck all!

Dona

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-02 17:37:06 EST
From:  LNOVOTNY

When I was in the schools, we too took 2 weeks to set our schedule.  We had
90 kids on our caseload...we had MANY teachers to meet with to see when the
kids could leave class.  And then this would be changed agian when other
conflicts arose such scheduling other resources.

Yes our IEPs stated the first day of school for services to be
deliverd...HOWEVER, it is part of services to take care of many other speech
duties.  There is no way we could have stated on the IEP that services would
start 2 weeks into the schoolyear.

Good luck.  I remember these ongoing conflicts every school year.  Get ready
for the end of the school year conflict:  Services to end on the last day of
school...yet massive paperwork to be completed, filed, and parties to work
around!

Laura :)
P.S. - Even with all the headaches, the schools are great place to be
employed!!




SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-02 17:46:24 EST
From:  Toezap

We used to do something called the DIAL-R in the Spring for those registered
to enter Kindergarten in the fall.  It was first done county-wide with SLP's
going around in teams to different schools.  The DIAL-R consisted of motor,
concept and speech-language screening, and was a source of identifying
children with special problems, developmental delays and those needing
speech-language services. Those kids were subsequently plugged into summer
speech and pre-Kindergarten classes.  Do to complaints about missed therapy
time, we then switched to doing it at our own schools for 1 day, and the
Kindergarten teachers at those schools assisting in testing. This past year
we did not have funding for summer speech/preK for those kids, therefore we
didn't screen.  I have mixed feelings about this, it was nice to have the
incoming Kindergarteners needing speech already identified and paperwork
started, however, I'm not sure teacher referral  is not just as valuable.  We
now take all teacher referrals to the building-based team for consideration,
which can recommend the teacher wait a few weeks to get more familiar with
the student if the problem does not appear very severe. This of course is a
matter of getting sufficient information on the student from the teacher, and
cuts down on the teachers who refer six or seven children in their class the
first week of school.  Real world or not, we've had it stressed that IEPs are
to be written to start the first day of school, and services are to be
provided from that  point on.  I had a roommate at a conference I went to
year before last who said her district was having to provide compensatory
services (on Saturdays none the less!) for time the students in question
missed from therapy.  I believe this particular case involved a situation
where a child was coming from another state or at least system, and there was
a lagtime of a couple months till they were served.  But..I think we need to
consider what could happen.....!

SUBJECT:  Oral Motor Essentials   Date:  97-09-03 00:27:59 EST
From:  DebOnWeb30

Has anyone attended one of the Charlene Boshart "Oral Motor Essentials"
workshops?  Was it valuable?

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-03 07:31:48 EST
From:  TAWhit

Many of the SLPs in our district do the exact same thing, Shelly (where are
you from?) - test teacher referrals from Kindergarten as soon as possible
(not even screen, if the teacher refers -> test) and then do screenings later
in the year (bit by bit) or do group screening by hanging out with groups in
the classroom and getting teacher input. There is no all-fire hurry to get
them done unless there's a concern.

And we also have our IEPs spread out throughout the year. I think it would
insane to have 75 IEPs due in the same month (or week?). Yes, sometimes an
IEP that was rewritten in February has to be done again in May or June
depending on the child's situation, but not as a rule.

Terrie

SUBJECT:  Developemental Speech    Date:  97-09-04 00:00:23 EST
From:  MarthaDen

Does anyone have a developmental list of the sounds that are use by children.
If so, could you E-mail a copy of that list. I am concerned about my 2 year
old neighbor boy.  Really, I am more concerned about his mother. I think she
is expecting too much too soon. she needs to understand that speech is
developmental .Thanks for any help or reference you can provide

SUBJECT:
Earobics at CAPD conference   Date:  97-09-04 08:23:11 EST
From:  Concepts1

Cognitive Concepts, Inc. invites everyone to stop by the Earobics exhibit
booth at the upcoming "Symposium on the Assessment & Management of CAPD"
October 17-18, 1997 at the Ramada Plaza Hotel in Greenville, NC.

The conference, sponsored by the Department of Communication Sciences &
Disorders at East Carolina University, will feature several outstanding guest
faculty who will discuss the scientific foundations of CAPD, intervention
strategies, and the scientific basis of clinical approaches.

All in attendance at the conference will have the opportunity to view and
experience "hands-on" the Earobics Auditory Development & Phonics programs.
Dr. Jan Wasowicz, the program's creator, will be present to answer questions
about the theoretical and scientific basis of the Earobics programs.

Please stop by and say hello.

For registration information contact the Office of Allied Health Education at
[phone].

For more information about Earobics visit www.cogcon.com


SUBJECT:  Re:Developemental Speech    Date:  97-09-04 17:04:00 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I actually have a number of good developmental speech charts, but they are at
school, not at home.  I will tell you that at the age of two some children
are only beginning to combine words and for some their sound development is
still in the developing stage for many sounds.  Mastery of p, b, m, t, d
would be expected.  There could be tons of other mistakes, but it would
depend on what they were as to whether or not they are o.k.  For example, if
a two year old was substituting a th for an s (thun for sun), I would
probably shrug my shoulders as this is a very typical mistake for young
children.  If the child were saying kun for sun,  I would be more concerned
as that is not usual.
In preschoolers, it is important to look at growth over time as well as how a
child is doing right now.  And...is the child unintelligible...or does the
child make sound errors but listeners can still understand him?  These are
important questions.

If your neighbor has concerns there is a birth to three agency in your state
which will conduct a speech evaluation at no cost.  Contact the local public
school and they can refer you to the proper agency for your area.

SUBJECT:
Re:Developemental Speech    Date:  97-09-04 17:05:42 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

P.S.  I forgot this in my posting...Unless you are specifically asked for
assistance, I would suggest that you not offer it.  Even as a professional, I
do not comment on the speech habits of friend's or neighbor's children unless
specifically I am asked.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-04 19:55:45 EST
From:  MareCash

This is in response to Shellyhl's inquiry about screening. Accordingto our
special ed director, it is mandated that we screen all children entering
Kindergarten. Does anyone have other info? We schedule 7 days of screenings
in our school in the spring ( of course, that means cancelling classes),
butnow at the start of the school year ,we have 40 children who did not come
in for the screenings, just moved here, etc. I will need to screen them next
week.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-04 20:02:00 EST
From:  MareCash

Dona - I like how you think.   I work k-5 and have 73 ids to schedule.
Although I worked hard with the principal to group kids in classes together,
I still have 25 teachers to work with. I started trying to set up some
scheduling today. I got a few groups scheduled. Five minutes before I walked
out the door, one of the teachers came and said she had made a mistake - they
haev computers at that time. Threw everything out. Back to square one.
Personally, I don't get how anyone can effectively schedule kids they have
never met in order to start on the first day of school. I got 27 new
Kindergarten children this year. Today I spent the day in the classrooms,
interacting with them to see who they could work with in a group. In adition,
in the higher grades. I got 12 new kids. I am always open for suggestions to
heasr how others approach this.

SUBJECT:  CAPPS?   Date:  97-09-04 20:50:59 EST
From:  Mechthildm

My seven year old daughter's speech therapist would like to do a Children's
Auditory Procesing Performance Scale checklist, which was developed by
Smoski.  However; we can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone know where we can
look or who has it?  I appreciate all responses.

SUBJECT:  Re: K screening   Date:  97-09-05 15:32:53 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

So far as I know there is no FEDERAL mandate for screening kindergarteners.
Perhaps this is a state mandate...or a local one...or perhaps it is school
district policy.  As I stated earlier, not screening saves me having to see
the average kiddos, which quite frankly are most of the kiddos (thankfully).
The teachers are wonderful, and not at all shy about passing the names of
kids to me to screen on an as needed basis.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re: K screening   Date:  97-09-05 23:15:19 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

I used to do kindergarten screenings also, but now this is no longer part of
my professional responsibilities.   The kindergarten teachers are trained to
do developmental testing and if they fail the communication screen then they
are referred to me.  However, I still am in charge of the Hearing Screening
Program for the 4 schools I serve.  We routinely screen grades K, 2, 4, 8,
special ed children, new children, and rechecks.  With 4 schools this takes
approximatley at least one week of my time at the beginning of the school
years.  I also serve the most severely communicatively handicapped kids in my
school district.  Several are utilizing augmentative communication devices.
If I used a weighted caseload ( as Tennessee recommends but does NOT mandate,
then my caseload is approxmately 90 at this point in time).  It usally takes
me at least 3 weeks at the beginning of the school year to do screening,
testing, meetings, etc. before I can begin therapy.  Legally, therapy should
start on day 1 of the school year but the reality of the situation makes this
impossible.  Sure wish a parent would squeal on me and seek compensatory
services.  This is the only way I think that the school administration will
WAKE UP and do what is right for  the disabled child and fair for the
therapist.
I understand that the next time we are monitored that the state monitors will
actually visit the classrooms and the special educators out in the individual
schools rather than just reviewing records at the Central Office for which
they write us up on things like not filling in every space on the page ( We
are told not to leave any spaces blank on any forms - put NOT APPLICABLE).
Such a crazy world we live in!!   I've decided not to join my state speech,
language, and hearing association this year because I feel like after 25
years they've accomplished nothing significant for public school speech and
language pathologists.  Our greatest need is a MANDATED caseload size so that
we can serve our children appropriately and fairly.  Sorry, I started venting
again.  I wish you the best of luck this school year.  The first six weeks
are generally the toughest but things do improve as you get settled into
therapy.

Take care,
Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re: K screening   Date:  97-09-06 09:04:37 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

In our school system (and in many others here in CT) the school nurse is in
charge of hearing screenings (as well as vision screenings...the only reason
I mention this is that if speech paths do hearing screening than why not have
the LD folks do vision screening...how silly!!!).  The only time I get
involved is when a child fails more than once.  Then I do the tymp which our
school nurse doesn't do.  We also have some kiddos with chronic hearing
problems and we share the responsibility for screening them monthly.
Again....most of these kiddos are just fine.  It takes tremendous amounts of
time to do these screenings and in most cases they yield no disability.  The
nurse takes a couple of weeks to do each grade.  In some schools they train
volunteer parents to do a pure tone screening.  It sure isn't hard to do.
And if there is a question, the nurse does a recheck.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  State
associations   Date:  97-09-06 09:07:16 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Harriet, I agree with you.  I have not joined my state association since
moving to this state.  The bulk of therapists are in the schools and yet
their annual conference address issues for the geriatric population and
eating disorders.  They have not done anything I can see for the school
therapist.  Of course...I could say the same about ASHA, of which I am a
member.  Too bad.

SUBJECT:  Re:hearing/vision screenings   Date:  97-09-06 09:27:42 EST
From:  Toezap

We started vision/hearing screening all kids in every elememtary school every
year several years ago.  We just finished one of my schools this week, and
successfully got everyone screened in half of one day, including scoliosis
screening for the 5th and 6th graders.  Before we started this I never would
have thought it could be done, but now it goes smoothly,  This is a
district-wide program, and each elem. school has a day scheduled.  The school
nurses go to each screening (if the school is large enough), and they use
students from the high school health occupations classes to help as well as
PTA parent volunteers.  I have used parent voluteers in the past, and some
years am able to get students from the local univerisity speech and hearing
program to come and help with hearing screenings.  We gather all the SLPs
audiometers/vision charts and they are circulated from screening to
screening.  Failures on vision are rescreened by the nurses that day and
letters sent home...hearing are redone that day on Kindergarteners (who may
not have understood) and 2 weeks later on everyone else.  The PE teacher gets
parents who are nurses and her assistant and they do scoliosis
simultaneously.  I am "in charge" and initially it was a scary experience but
we've learned alot each year and now I think it's an asset.  The results are
recorded in the cum. folders of each student, and now when anyone comes up
before building-based committee for referral for special ed, or three year
eligibility is done I don't have to try and squeeze in those hearing/vision
screenings that always needed to be done "right now".  We also can follow
those kids that fail more efficiently to try and get them whatever services
they need.  It has turned out to be a timesaver rather than another drain on
my time,

SUBJECT:  autism and facilitated comm..   Date:  97-09-06 11:19:45 EST
From:  JKaplan29

Hello, I was just catching up on the board and saw that no one answered your
question on autism and fc.  I teach multiple disabilities.  I have
facilitated with someone for over 3 years.  I think she facilitates with over
10 people.  She will never be an independent typist due to other disabilities
that are inaddition to autism.  Some of the students in her fc support group
are now independent typists!  Some are trying.  There is a high school out
here that trains peer tutors to be facilitatiors.  It is wonderful program!
If you would like anymore information, please let me know.  I don't know
where you live.  There will be an FC conference in Orange County, Ca in
October and later one in Syracuse, NY.  Let me know if you need more info!  :
) Janette

SUBJECT:  Re:State associations   Date:  97-09-06 15:36:45 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

Shelley,

Just wanted to post and say that the TN association has offered many
workshops in conjunction with the State Board of Education which provide
continuing education opportunites for public school speech and language
pathologists in our state.  These are free and have covered such topics as
autism, traumatic brain injury, central auditory processing disorders, etc.
They periodically do surveys and the #1 concern of public school SLP's over
the years continues to be large caseloads.  The state association has  been
unsuccessful in their state lobbying efforts to get a state MANDATED caseload
size since I graduated from UT in 1977.  I continue to belong to ASHA
primarily because I feel professionally obligated to keep my CCC-SLP.
However, I also feel that ASHA has failed in its efforts to improve the
working conditions of their largest constituency - being the public school
SLP.

~Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-06 16:13:39 EST
From:  TLVAIL

In our schools, all the kindergarten teachers are screened by the teachers-
anyone with a problem or concern is referred to the SLP.  All "specials" are
arranged by the principal before school starts and a schedule is given to us
on the first day of school.  This year, at my request, she grouped my kids
into classes for me.  I scheduled all of the classes (I do inclusion) on the
first day of school.  I then reviewed files and made sure all my paperwork
was in order, made an annual review list ( ours go for one calendar year- not
all at the same time) and ran off things I needed to start therapy.  In 2
days, I was ready to start therapy.  I don't understand the need for mass SI
screenings- hearing, yes, and our school nurses do that.  I sit on the
assistance team and if a child is having classroom difficulty which may be
related to communication, I screen them then.  What is the purpose of mass
screening?

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-06 20:23:46 EST
From:  HarrietSLP

< What is the purpose of mass screening?>

Well....it is routinely utilized to identify those children with suspected
speech and language problems and/or developmental delays.  In Tennessee  all
children prior to first grade must have the following developmental areas
screened:  visual perception; auditory perception, gross motor; fine motor;
social development;and speech/ language.  Vision and hearing screening is
done 4 times - preferably grades K, 2, 4, and 8.  I used to work in a school
system where teacher assistants were trained to do the vision and hearing
screening. However, in my present system the SLP's are required to do the
hearing screening and the vision specialist does vision screening.  Our
school system contracts with a private audiologist to do further testing on
those who fail the hearing screening.  I don't mind doing the screening other
than the fact that it takes away from therapy time.

~Harriet

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-07 10:54:56 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I agree...what is the purpose of mass screening?  I guess if it is a state
mandate than you have no choice.  I, too, sit on the child study team when
needed.  I screen the kiddos who are having difficulty...not the ones who are
not.  It sure streamlined my operation to do so.

SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services
inthe f   Date:  97-09-07 17:01:09 EST
From:  TLVAIL

From the way I understand it, our jobs as SLP's in the schools is to provide
services to children who have communication problems that are having a
negative impact on educational performance.  If the child is having
difficulty in school, he/she will be referred to the assistance team for
help.  If they are not having trouble in school, even if they have a
communication problem, they should not be served by the school SLP.  So...if
you screen all children, do you only test those who fail and *also* are
having academic difficulty?  Mass SI screenings make no sense to me and seem
to be an awful waste of time.  Can you find out where this requirement came
from and try to have it changed?
Also- are any of you billing medicaid for services provided by bachelor's
level SLP's in the schools?  We always heard that the SLP's had to be
licensed in order to bill but have recently heard of schools billing for both
bachelors and masters level services.  I live in NC.

SUBJECT:  jr high tx ideas   Date:  97-09-07 18:29:03 EST
From:  Toezap

I have recently acquired a group of jr high students who are very low
functioning and need improvement in social language skills.  Although they
are grouped together all day long they verbally interact primarily only with
their teachers when required to do so. If anyone has any good and simple
ideas of age appropriate activities that I can do I'd love to hear them.  All
but one are nonreaders, yet I do want activities to facilitate communication
that are appropriate to the jr. high setting.Thanks!


SUBJECT:  Re:Starting services inthe f   Date:  97-09-07 20:02:07 EST
From:  MareCash

I live in New York , and wehn I started this job, the SLP who taught me the
paperwork ropes told me these K screenings were part of my duties. I will be
sure to question if they are truly mandated at our next meeting.

As for TVAIL's question about medicaid billing.... All or our licensed SLP's
are billing. Those that are unlicensed are being supervised by one of our
licensed SLP's who is being paid a stipend to do so. She is signing off on
all of the billing by the unlicensed people. When the district told us they
would be requiring medicaid billing, we really had about a year's worth of
discussion about all of the issues that go along with it. In the end we
didn't have much say in anything. For all of the additional paperwork, and
the use of our licenses ( which is really what they are doing) we got no
extra prep time, no computers to use for report writing, etc.

SUBJECT:  Re:jr
high tx ideas   Date:  97-09-08 18:38:58 EST
From:  Galiemla

I have an Intermediate Life Skills classroom that I run a 'social' group in.
It's called "Coffee Talk".  Each week the teacher and I decided upon a topic
and develop two discussion questions.  Sometimes we tap into the the regular
ed kids for their suggestions.  Sometimes we are even lucky enough to have
special guests attend, like the superintendent, principal or board members.
The discussion questions are sent home so that the family is involved by
introducing the topic to the students.  During "Coffee Talk", we practice
taking turns, asking and answering questions and learn more about each other.
After our discussion, these social skills are taken a step further.  We then
have a snack during which more discussion is encouraged.  We have used this
with both verbal and nonverbal students.  We really have a great time.  I
hope this suggestion helps.

SUBJECT:  Need info   Date:  97-09-09 01:26:03 EST
From:  CHSMom

I hope someone can answer a question, or point me in the right direction.  My
10 year old son is ADHD and dyslexic.  When talking, especially when he is
trying to tell about something that happened, he often has a very difficult
time retrieving the word he wants to use.  Is this indicative of a language
problem, or is it "typical" of ADHD kids, because they go so fast?
Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-09 09:30:28 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello CHS, could he have dysnomia. My children and I have this. It is a
retrieval problem with pulling the right word out when you want it.It very
much feels like someone who walks in a room and forgets what they are there
for, but later the information comes back. We have found that the larger our
vocabulary has become the less of a problem this presents as we have grown
older. What this means when doing written work is that you are constantly
substuting other words for the word you would rather use, because you can't
pull the word you want out at that moment.

 It adds a 5% difficulty to a child who is dysgraphic.(stats according to
SusanS29) :)
                 I have this too. Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Mandated K Screening
In NY   Date:  97-09-09 14:52:09 EST
From:  MareCash

I checked with our department head today. She informed me that screening
Kindergarten students for Speech and Langauge skills is mandated by the state
of New York. I will get a copy of the mandate to  post this week.

SUBJECT:
Re:Mandated K Screening In NY   Date:  97-09-09 17:15:32 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I'd love to see the mandate...and the rationale for this.  ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:
Re:Mandated K Screening   Date:  97-09-09 19:10:37 EST
From:  AndersonTG

In our district we screen all kindergarten children.  It was our
understanding that it was mandated that all children in Illinois would have a
speech screen upon initial entrance in school.  Hence, kindergarten
screening.  We screen new students at other grade levels.  We were told by
the state that we could not do "screenings" as requested by teachers at other
grade levels because a screening indicated that it was something that was
done to all of the children.  If you do only one or two in each class we were
required to get parental permission signed to do a speech/language
evaluation.
     Also, in response to a previous posting about a severity guideline for
speech path's in Illinois.  The person to contact would be Jodi Fleck with
the Illinois State Board of Education.  The guidelines have not been revised
or approved.  In Illinois, they have done away with the office of special
education and things are moving very slowly.  ISHLA has not made much of a
dent in Illinois on lowering case load numbers although, I know there is a
group working on it.  Cheryl

SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-09 23:57:13 EST
From:  CHSMom

Thanks Barb - I'll check into dysnomia further.  Altho he is not diagnosed as
dysgraphic, I suspect he is, has many OT issues.

Debbie

SUBJECT:  Re:Mandated K Screening   Date:  97-09-10 15:57:39 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Speech screenings done by teacher referral are the basis for any prereferral
information to be conveyed to either the planning and placement team or our
child study team (which handles prereferrals).  In our state we have to
document what we have done outside of special education, prior to a formal
referral.  A teacher's referral to me gives me the chance to listen
informally to a child and provide inclass strategies that might correct a
potential problem.  This is a state mandate and must be documented in writing
prior to any formal referral.I do not use a formal screening device, just
informal measures, self developed.  It opens a great dialogue with the
teachers and parents.

SUBJECT:  Re: Kindergarten delema   Date:  97-09-10 16:04:17 EST
From:  WYOBSKT

Hello.  I have a 6 year old with severe speech delay, congnitive level is
"average".  This year we have him in K for half day then goes to the 1st
grade ISEC class in the afternoon.  My problem is that there are aprox. 4
children in the afternoon isec with severe behavior problems.  From what I'm
told they are very difficult to control.  My son, who is very mild mannered
and on the norm, very well behaved.  Lately though he comes home, very tired
and very vicious.  Throwing things and crying uncontrollably.  I'm certain
he's picking it up from class.  Should I just keep reinforcing the "good "
behavior or should I look into having him taken out of the class.  He's
basically in the ISEC so they don't have to pull him out of regular ed to
give him the services.  (Speech, ot and pt.)  I'm a bit concerned that this
bad behavior will stick with him.
Any advice will be helpful.  Thank you!
WYOBSKT

SUBJECT:  Other Mandates   Date:  97-09-10 16:32:17 EST
From:  MareCash

In NY we are also mandated to screen any third grader who does not pass the
third grade reading PEPS. We are also mandated to screen any children grades
1-5 who come to us from another state, or from a parochial school. I agree
that mass K screenings can be time consuming, and the majority of the
children would be eventually referrred by the teachers anyways. However, in
our spring screening, I identified 12 children who needed full speech
language. This was able to be done over the summer, so these children do not
have to wait as long to start services.

SUBJECT:  Re:Mandated K Screening   Date:  97-09-10 17:01:15 EST
From:  Toezap

Shelley, we now have approximately the same system here...we have what is
called a building-based support team that all special ed referrals, including
speech now go thru.  We can recommend some interventions in the classroom,
and if we do then we have to specify in writing what they are to be and then
the team reviews results as reported by the teacher six weeks later.
Interventions do not have to take place for speech however, if I choose to
recommend to accept the referral and go ahead and test.  This is how we
differ from other special ed services.
Laurie

SUBJECT:  Re:State associations   Date:  97-09-10 18:00:12 EST
From:  MRogers140

Harriet,
      I have just moved to TN.  Can you give me an address for joining the
state association.
        Thank you!  [e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:Mandated K Screening In NY   Date:  97-09-10 18:32:19 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Marecash- I wonder if it's mandated that the SLP's be the ones who screen.
In our district all Kindergarten students are screened with the DIAL-
Speech/language is a section of most overall screens.  SLP's aren't involved
except with those who fail.

SUBJECT:  Re:Mandated K Screening   Date:  97-09-10 18:36:28 EST
From:  TLVAIL

RE: screenings-  I have the teachers put the names of children they are
concerned about in my box then go to the classroom and talk to the teacher
about the types of concerns.  Occassionally I will sit at a table and talk to
a group of students to do an informal screen- If I feel I need more I send a
notification of screening- not permission to test unless I know the kiddo
will qualify (or at least pretty sure).  It is my understanding that once you
get the permission to test signed, you have to do all the paperwork.  Yuck!!
Does your assistance team send a notification of screening to parents before
doing academic screens for kids referred to them?  If so, could you use the
same form?

SUBJECT:  Re: Kindergarten delema   Date:  97-09-10 18:38:51 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I don't understand the rationale re: being pulled out of a regular or special
ed. class.  His placement should depend soley on his goals and where they can
best be met.  I would ask for a meeting to discuss the issue and come up with
some resolutions.

SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-11 00:28:10 EST
From:  PPear31329

My son is 12 years old and has A.D.H.D. and dyslexia.  He does not have
problems retrieving the right words when telling stories, but he
mispronounces alot of his words ( narble for marble) ext..
We just found out he has a severe auditory defficate.  So he not only has
trouble staying focused, but he doesn't hear exactly what the teachers say,
we're not even sure if he doesn't miss some of the things that are said.   It
has been a really hard road for everyone but expecially for him.  I keep
praying that this year will be better than last... Good Luck..

SUBJECT:  Re:Need
info   Date:  97-09-11 00:36:49 EST
From:  CHSMom

by auditory deficit do you mean hearing loss?  That is tough.  Good luck to
you

SUBJECT:  speech delay    Date:  97-09-11 21:32:46 EST
From:  KRSNMIK

Hi - I'm hoping to find some creative answers here ! I have a 3 yrd old who
is spech delayed - both expressive (18-26 mos) and receptive (22-29 mos). She
is going to individual speech therapy 2x a week for a total of 1.5 hrs. I'm
wondering if there is anything else I can do?  I was considering having an
eval done for the early intervention program for preschool....but I'm not
sure. She has
mastered all other milestones in gross & fine motor skills (except potty
training !).....I'm trying to make sure she has every opportunity available
to progress and be the best she can. She's had all the medical tests done
(eeg, mri etc), & everything is normal - she's just delayed. She has been in
speech for about 8 mos now & really has made tons of progress....Any thoughts
on other things we can do to help ? Thanks !

SUBJECT:  Mandated Screenings   Date:  97-09-11 22:12:52 EST
From:  MareCash

Our special ed director is sending me a copy of the NY mandate. I will post
it when I get it.

We do not need parental permission to screen - since it is a state mandate.
If during a screening I find delays, I send home my own SL testing permission
form. If the student qualifies for services, I  refer to the psychologist who
starts the CSE referral. We are not supposed to do Speech improvement in our
district, unless we have the time (yeah right!) , but I always have a few on
my caseload. So, most of the kids get refered to CSE. I start most of them
before CSE (must send home a permission to start speech form).
I'd like to also hear what other distict's are doing about caseload size - I
know ASHA has recommendations, but school districts do not follow them - at
least ours doesn't. We are supposed to have a top number of 65 CSE kids. This
is still too many - so many of my kiddos are 4 times a week this year. What
are you all doing about speech improvement? Do you still do it/ If not, how
did your district let parents know?

SUBJECT:  Re:3 year old's speech delay   Date:  97-09-11 22:44:01 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
    As a parent, I would do some of the following activities:
    -I would read to hear during the day, look at picture books and talk about
    the pictures
    -talk to her while I am working around the house...."now let's go do the
wash.....open the lid....the washer is empty....put this shirt in it....now
the soap..." and other household tasks when you can do the chore and talk
easily to her at the same time...
    -riding in the car, talk about the places you are passing, where you are
going, what you need to do....as if you had another adult along with you, but
in simple sentences.....and you may not get an answer back, but it is
important to keep talking....
    -go to children's museums, fun places for kids, a pet store..... grocery
store...every place is a new awakening world to your child....talk about what
you see, and what you are doing....be sure to use not just the names of
objects, but also action words, which can later be combined to make "phrases
and sentences"
    -play with your child at home....dress up dolls, finger paints, paper and
markers, the computer....especially whatever she likes to do, go for a walk,
etc. and can enjoy talking with her while playing and having a pleasant
experience too.
    -go to the library , perhaps they have a children's theatre or some other
enrichment type activity....check out a book, read another while still in the
library....
    -during your child's day, take photos of her in action....then later can
talk about them, put them in sequence, and have fun looking at them.   Did
that for my child when he was about your daughter's age.  He is now 16, and
it's amusing to see all the cute photos of him in action doing different
activities around the house and at the park....
    -check out the YMCA/YWCA for mother/child activities.

  Hope these might be some helpful suggestions that you might do to help
stimulate your child's listening and speaking skills.   You might be doing
some already, and that's great!!    Oh, one more thing - give her plenty of
hugs and kisses, snuggle time :)          Anne

SUBJECT:  elective mute   Date:  97-09-11 22:44:30 EST
From:  Aikijlw

I have a second grader in my class who has not spoken at school - apparently
ever. The problem has been noted since she entered kinder.  Mom says she
speaks at home.  She doesn't speak in the classroom, playground - anywhere.
Her skills in all areas are very low.  Any suggestions for helping her in the
classroom?  Not necessarily to speak - but to work with her academics more
effectively.

SUBJECT:  Re:elective mute   Date:  97-09-11 22:50:31 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Ah, sounds familiar... I have a boy in first grade who had not spoken last
year during Kindergarten.  I think he might whisper to kids this year, but
that is not the definite case.   Found info on the computer about it, and
there is also a foundation regarding these cases, that can send you
info.....if I remember when I get to work, will bring some addresses home
with me.  They had helpful info.  Main person working with the child and the
family should be the school psychologist.  The Speech person is involved if
when the child does speak, he would have articulation or sentence errors.....
I find it amazing that other children don't inspire the silent one to
speak.....interesting children.     Anne

SUBJECT:  Re: Nevada   Date:  97-09-12 13:30:13 EST
From:  OromotorSP

This might be an unusual message but, here goes.  I am trying to locate
anyone from the state of Nevada who is interested in oral-motor therapy.
Please e-mail me: oromotorsp.

Thanks,   Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson

SUBJECT:  Testing   Date:  97-09-12 13:49:52 EST
From:  Diana0309

Hi,
I am a mother in NC with a 9yo who demonstrates reading difficulty ie.
transposes letters rain--->rian sometimes he *sees* it other times not, no
decoding skill (word id) just says what he thinks it is...or reads it with
letters dropped off. ie Bill[y]  This effects his reading,writing and
spelling skills.  I am having to build a strong case to get school assist,
because No 15pt discrepancy from IQ to WJ-R.  He did demonstrate on WISC and
Bender Gestalt Visual Motor test of having a significant weakness with visual
perceptual processing.  It is really beginning to interfere with academics
more so than previous years.  It *looks* like dyslexia with dysgraphia with
some ADHD added (currently being evaluated)  He was retained in 1st due to
reading difficulties and immaturity.  Are there better tests to evaluate
these weaknesses?  I have a folder full of examples to show how this effects
his academics...And with great assertiveness convinced school to at least
evaluate for 504!!  Any suggestions greatfully accepted!!  I need to convince
school he needs help NOW before he fails again.  Thank you  Diana

SUBJECT:  Voice
light   Date:  97-09-12 17:51:18 EST
From:  Toezap

Anyone remember the old "voice light" that can be used for volume control
practice?  Do you know if these are still made and if so where can they be
obtained, (or something similar) Thanks

SUBJECT:  child w/dysxlexic & dysgraph   Date:  97-09-13 16:44:06 EST
From:  Toni W1106

Diana,
Don't give up.  Request that a 504 be done.  In our district they can't deny
a 504.  I have a very similar child.  She struggles in school.  We requested
a special ed referral because she did not quality for reading recovery (Too
Low?)  I panicked and got a referral.  She did not qualify.  She went 1/2 the
year w/o special services.  They put her in a literacy group to I think
satisfy me.  We request another psych and this time she qualified but in math
and not reading.  It is very frustrating.  We had her tested privately and
was found to be ADD (Passive type) .  She definitly has dyslexic tendencies
which was confirmed by the private psych.  Do not give up.  The school.must
do something.  It is your right to a 504.  Do not give up.  If need be go
privately for a psych exam for more infor.  Good luck.
Toni

SUBJECT:  Re:speech delay    Date:  97-09-13 16:46:39 EST
From:  Toni W1106

By all means get your child into a good preschool.  Social language is very
important in the language development of a child.  If it is a PPI program
there normally is a SLP that would see your child at the school several times
a week.

good luck

toni

SUBJECT:  Fast Forward ??   Date:  97-09-15 14:17:05 EST
From:  Jtkita

Hi - I am an SLP in need of info re: Fast Forward.  Where can I access info
re: ordering/cost and perhaps an outline of this program??  Please e-mail me
,  THANKS    [e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re: Screenings   Date:  97-09-16 08:15:41 EST
From:  Roskzalex

Our district used to do Spring Kdg. Roundup and put all the kids through a
DIAL-R screening.  Several years ago, they switched to having a staggered
start- each Kdg. class is divided up into three sections and each small group
gets one day to get to know the teacher (and vice versa) for the first 3 days
of school.  Then the class comes as a whole.  This gives the teacher a chance
to really spot those needs and make appropriate referrals for screenings.  It
is also easy to screen those children who may require speech screenings.  The
kindergarten teachers, the parents and all involved are very pleased with
this system.
I have worked in this district for several years and know my teachers.  I do
not do a mass screening anymore.  They are competent!  They know when a
child's speech is not up to par and make good referrals from there.
For years I did mass screenings and what I learned, by cross referencing
names from year to year (e.g.  in Kdg., Johnny didn't say his s,r,th.  In
first grade, he has learned his s, in second grade he had learned his 'r' ,
In third grade he had learned his 'th')  is that most kids grow out of their
speech problems, and that it is fairly easy to tell when they aren't going to
by the quality of their misarticulations.  I guess it is just out of
practice.....     Robyn

SUBJECT:  Re:elective mute   Date:  97-09-16 14:43:24 EST
From:  K for 5

The November issue of the professional publication, Language, Speech and
Hearing Services in Schools has a report entitled, "Selective Mutism in
Elementary School: Multidisciplinary Interventions.  It basically discusses a
treatment approach via a case study which centered on the  team work between
teacher, speech path and psychologist.  I'm sure the speech pathologist at
your child's school would have access to this publication if you were
interested in reviewing it.

Kerry

SUBJECT:  Re:elective mute   Date:  97-09-16 14:46:08 EST
From:  K for 5

Ooops - forgot you're not the mom - but as a teacher you may want to pass
this article on to the parent or I'm sure you may find it helpful for
yourself, etc. . . . .

kerry

SUBJECT:  Re: Screenings   Date:  97-09-16 16:21:37 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Robyn, I share your sentiments.  I guess what I'm seeing here is that some
states mandate these screenings.  I am unclear as to the rationale for this
as well as whether these screenings are mandated to be done by a SLP...or
could the kindergarten teacher do them?  Also, I wonder how many situations
are ones of past practice and not present usefulness.

SUBJECT:  Re: Screenings   Date:  97-09-16 17:02:05 EST
From:  Boulevard

We screen using a form we developed that corresponds to our state guidelines.
(No hassle with copyright laws because we "own "  it. We can make multiple
copies without buying this form, and it reflects what our state guidelines
are.  ) Our "Count Your Kid In" (preschool) screenings are available in all
school parent newsletters and are advertised throughout the community.  If
the parent or teacher does not indicate a concern, the child's
articulation/phonology development is screened in the Spring of their
kindergarten year(and if nobody thinks it's a problem prior to that, why
would we screen? Preassessment information must document that an impairment
is affecting classroom performance).  We publish notices in the monthly
newsletter that screening is available upon parent request or teacher concern
prior to that.   As far as language concerns, we look at how the child is
operating in the classroom (teacher checklist, slp observation) and then
refer to  the building team. Doing a language eval. in the past without
benefit of the team looking at the child often resulted in a language program
developed without the necessary academic modifications implemented.  So, we
had a "speech/language  IEP"  and then 6 mos later found that the child
qualified for academic support through the "learning disabilities" label.
We need to look at how the communication deficit/disorder impacts the child's
functioning within the school setting. Teacher inservice and parent
information often remediate any questions related to this issue.   Nancy, SLP
([e-mail])



SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-17 00:19:34 EST
From:  PPear31329

No he does not have hearing loss, but he misses soft sounds, and his auditory
processing doesn't send the same message to his brain, that the teachers
intended. He hearing is within the normal range.  I know its hard to
understand, try explaining it to him.....and the teachers....
They look at me like I have two heads....

SUBJECT:  Auditory Deficit/Aud. proc?   Date:  97-09-17 06:46:00 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Are you referring to auditory processing disorder? If so, not only it it
possible that he has normal hearing, but it may even be "too good". With an
auditory processing disorder, you don't have to have peripheral loss. Tell
the teachers that its not his ability to hear that is affected, its' the
ability to make sense of what is comming in(for various reasons). At any
rate, who dx. the disorder? If the person works for the schools, they should
be willing to talk to your sons' teachers about this and how to help him. If
not, have him/her write something up explaining the results of the testing
and suggested CLASSROOM accomadations. You may need to have accomodations
added to his exsisting IEP, which may require a seperate meeting. Please, if
you don't understand what the diagnosis means, you need to sit down with this
person who dx your son and talk about it and the implications of it. I am
sorry for you that he is 12 years old before this was discovered, but the
important part, is where to go from here and does he need an accomodations
plan(504)...Good luck.... Regina

SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-17 15:54:25 EST
From:  Lynnebl

<They look at me like I have two heads.... >

This happens to me all the time.  I haven't figured out if it is a tactic to
prevent the child from getting services by refusing to validate that there is
a problem or if the school staff is uneducated.  My youngest child has an
auditory processing problem which is being addressed through therapy from the
speech pathologist.  It took me years to get the proper testing and
diagnosis.  Now my question is....is the treatment correct?  Has anyone heard
of *Auditory Trainers*?  Is there any other treatment for auditory processing
deficit besides therapy with the speech pathologist?
Thanks Lynne

SUBJECT:  CELF-3   Date:  97-09-17 16:18:46 EST
From:  MirlaG

A few years ago I purchased the CELF and found the norms for the test to be
inaccurate.  It has been revised a couple of times since and am wondering if
the normative data is more accurate now.  Also, would you recommend the
CELF-3 over the TOLD (P:3)?  Your comments will be much appreciated.
Mirla



SUBJECT:  Re:Fast Forward ??   Date:  97-09-17 16:21:37 EST
From:  MirlaG

Fast Forward address: 417 Montgomery St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94104;
phone [phone]; fax [phone]; website: www.scilearn.com.
Mirla

SUBJECT:  Re:Need info   Date:  97-09-17 18:48:37 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Ideally, therapy should involve the audiologist, speech pathologist and
classroom teacher working together as a team.  The speech therapist is
usually the one who implements it in the school setting partially because of
a lack of educational audiologists. The other problem tends to be one of
three different persons' perspective on the problem and having ideas
implemented in more than one setting. For example, say a child is dx. with an
Central Audirory Processing disorder by an audiologist. The recommndation may
be for sound field amplification in the classroom setting. The next decision
should be for a personal FM unit, or a classroom unit? The speech therapist
acts as a bridge between the educational audilogist and the teacher and, if
you will, coordinator to monitor the accomodation once it is prescribed. She
also provides the one on one training and should also monitor progress in the
classroom setting as well as making sure that the child's unit is set to the
appropriate level. Training should also extend to the classroom teacher and
other professionals working with the child. The biggest gaps I have found are
between1. The level of expertise of the therapist and or teacher,2. The
willingness of the audiologist to act as a team memeber, and 3. information
passed to the parents in a way that makes it possible for them to understand
their child's problem and also act as advocate for their child.  Now, what is
an auditory trainer? It is a small black box attatched to the child's
clothing(or belt), with earphones(they come in different types), that allow
the child to hear the teachers' voice above the classroom level noises thus
aiding attention and allowing better participation in classroom activities
for a child who either cannot hear the sound above noise or is having
problems discriminating the teachers' voice (reduced clarity). Of late. the
units can also be purchased and installed in the ceiling so that all children
benefit from a better signal to noise ratio(clarity of speech above
extraneous noise). Many children who do not wish to be "singled out" do
better in classrooms with these units. Most of my kids don't mind the
headsets, they just joke that they gets to wear their"walkmans" all day!!
Hope that helped you. Please e-mail or post here if you have more?...Regina,
an SLP with an overly acute interest in the subject due to having a CAPD
child....

SUBJECT:  Re:  Selective Mutism   Date:  97-09-17 21:42:12 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
    Here are the addresses for the "Selective Mutism Foundation, Inc."
and they provide excellent info.  They request that when writing to them for
info, please send a business sized self addressed envelope with 2 stamps
($.64)  All correspondence should include a note indicating whether the
writer is a parent, a professional, etc.   That way they can mail the
appropriate information.  There are 2 addresses:

Sue Newman, Co-Director                        Carolyn Miller, Co-Director
Box 450632                                    Box 13133
Sunrise, FL   33345                            Sissonville, WV   25360

     I think you will find it very beneficial to write to them regarding your
student who does not speak.    My student will speak at home; but not at
school, not even to other students in the first grade......  and their
brochures help us to understand.            Anne

SUBJECT:  Re:Auditory
Deficit/Aud. pro   Date:  97-09-17 22:04:51 EST
From:  PPear31329

You hit the nail right on the head.  But when tested (privatly), they did not
suggest any equipment that would help my son, nor did they feel he needed
speech therapy or any specific help with his problems.  Other than very
specific modifications. The speach therapist at school is the one who
sugested he go for the testing, And after the testing was done, she called a
team meeting to explain what he specifically was needed in the classroom.
The teachers also looked at her like she had two heads.  And none of the
modification were carried out.  This year however, I have noticed a much
different attitude, with the handling of my son.  The science teacher sat him
in the front of the room right near her, and explained to him that she could
see he wasn't able to hear what she was saying, because of the conversation
his friends were having.  the resourse teacher only has 4 children in the
room, so this works out wonderful.  He told my mother last night he loves to
do homework????  I can't believe what I heard.  And he really seems to be
putting alot into it.  And he's telling me he wants to do it on his own.....
Things are definetly looking up...........

SUBJECT:  websites and newsgroups   Date:  97-09-18 00:39:25 EST
From:  Hjtd

As the editor of a speech and language pre-k parents' assocation newsletter,
I have received a request to publish a list of websites and newsgroups that
might be pertinent to the children/parents enrolled in the school. There are
also some children with ADD, ADHD and other problems. Please e-mail any info
and thanks in advance.

SUBJECT:  Re:Auditory Deficit/Aud. pro   Date:  97-09-18 06:48:39 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Were the modifications in writing? Were they recorded at the meeting? It
seems that you may need a 504 plan in place to get classroom accomidations.
Unfortunately, many times committees take a do-nothing stance, but it is
benign neglect at best and illegal at worst.  If you are still having
problems, contact your counties' parent advocate or go for a free initial
consult with a lawyer who is knowledgeable in school law. I applaud  your SLP
for at least trying, but in the schools SLP's are often low man on the totem
pole and they tend to be ignored, especially if what they are suggesting
costs money...at any rate, start with your director of Special Education and
go from there...take a copy of your sons evaluation to the meeting with
her/him and tell her what problems you are having...if you continue to get
blank looks, get your parent advocate and see where to go from there. If your
child already has an IEP you may need to call a meeting and have the
modifications added to it for then it becomes a legal document. Do what is
best for you and your child and don't give up....Regina

SUBJECT:  Selective
mutism - thanks!   Date:  97-09-18 22:33:01 EST
From:  Aikijlw

Thanks for the addresses and such for the Selective Mutism Foundation.  I
will definitely write to them, and will pass on the info to our school
psychologist.  She is beginning to respond more to me in class, and actually
brought her fifth grade brother by after school to see some of her work that
I had put up.

SUBJECT:  at a loss...   Date:  97-09-19 19:49:40 EST
From:  Mechthildm

My seven years old, second grade, daughter, has been identified as speech
impaired at the end of last school year.  However; I also suspect auditory
processing problems.  My daughter underwent the CELF and the SCAN, neither of
them showed any problems.  When my daughter gets detailed instructions, she
is not abel to follow them.  Sometimes when we talk to her she just looks at
us with a blank exprtession on her face.  During the CELF, even though the
results were within norm, several times I saw a clear delay in her answers.
Most of her modifications are geared toward auditory processing problems, for
example repeating instructions back to the teachers, chunking of work to be
done.
Does anyone have suggestions on where I should go from here?  I am not ready
to give up, just don't know what to do next.  Please e-mail to
mechthildm@aol, or post here.
I appreciate all the help you can give!
Thanks,  Mechthild

SUBJECT:  Re:at a loss...about 7 year    Date:  97-09-19 20:29:44 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

     Has a hearing test been done?   So that you know she has hearing within
the normal limits.......

    To the earlier message, congratulations on your student becoming more
expressive!!!   Awesome :D

SUBJECT:  articulation disorder   Date:  97-09-20 08:39:06 EST
From:  Ljhays

My son is 4and has mod/severe articulation disorder.  He has a history of ear
infections(tubes @ 18 MO.)and tongue tie (clipped at 2.5yrs).  He has been
recieving sp therapy for 1 1/2 years. His oral motor skills with tongue have
improved, however he still backs alot of his sounds.  He can do initial
p,b,m but backs the t's and d's. This is were he is working now.  Also, he
omitts all consonants at word endings.  He can do cvc with models in therapy
with cues but still does not carry over to conversation.  He is recieving 3 x
30 individually this year.  He made very little progress in the last year.
Seems like we are really stuck.Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, we are
going to have to decide if we should send him to kindergarten next year or
hold him back.(He does have a late birthday).  His only deficits are
expressive speech.Any input would be greatly appreciated.  Any books that I
can read to help me?  Thanks         Linda

SUBJECT:  Re:articulation disorder   Date:  97-09-20 14:59:12 EST
From:  MirlaG

Your child should have made more progress by now based on the number of times
per week he is seen for therapy and the length of time he has been receiving
therapy.   It may be time to switch speech pathologists.  Ask some other
parents, your child's doctor, or if he's in preschool, his teacher  if they
could recommend someone.

SUBJECT:  Re:Auditory Deficit/Aud. pro   Date:  97-09-20 18:19:51 EST
From:  PPear31329

To Regina:    Yes he has a 504 plan, and all the modifications were clearly
written in his I.E.P. and again on an attached sheet with clearly written
modifications.  The problem was he was caught between a disagreement with
this particular group of teachers, and administration.  And they were
determined to prove that inclusion doesn't work...  Sad isn't it to flush a
kids education down the tubes to prove a point.....Thank God this year is
much better and his modifications are being followed.
Thanks.


SUBJECT:  caseload   Date:  97-09-20 22:31:10 EST
From:  DorrianCA

A special ed administrator told us last week that school districts should
average 1 speech pathologist per 1000 students - in California.  Anyone heard
this, or know where I can get it in writing.
Also, our school district's budget allows only $400.00 per year for speech
therapists and $500.00 per year for every other credentialed postion.  Does
this sound like discrimination or ???

SUBJECT:  revamping screening   Date:  97-09-21 08:24:12 EST
From:  StJeFrey

I am revamping our kindergarten/new student screening method.  Currently we
use the GFTA which seems outdated and gives limited information.  What do you
use in your district?  I would appreciate any suggestions and/or examples of
what you use.  Thanks!!

SUBJECT:  stuttering   Date:  97-09-21 09:41:56 EST
From:  CBiller2

I am writing a paper on stuttering for a special learning disabilities class.
Are there any teacher's who can share their methods used to help educate
these students?  What other problems are associated with stuttering?

SUBJECT:
Re:revamping screening   Date:  97-09-21 10:59:54 EST
From:  MareCash

I have used the Fluharty, which I don't really like. There is also one called
the Joliet 3 minute screen. I don't really likethat one either. This year I
ordered the - oh gosh, now I'm not sure of the exact name - I'd have to look
at school - I think it is the Speech-Ease K-1 screening. It's OK. Most years
I have gone back to a screening that was developed at my undergrad college -
SUNY Cortland. It has an artic section, vocabulary, wh-Q probe, Carrow
Screening, and Menyuk repetition. It is pretty thourough.

SUBJECT:  stuttering   Date:  97-09-21 11:14:27 EST
From:  MareCash

I am writing again with a question about a fourth grade stutterer on my
caseload. I worked with him last year and made very little progress. He
apparently "began" stuttering in the first grade and was seen by the previous
SLP for two years. A little history - his father also stutters (dad is in
jail), his uncle stutters and his sister who is in second grade stutters. She
is not as severe. Strong familial history here. This boy is very bright, but
also is becoming more and more of a behavior problem in school. Often laughc
when others make mistakes, has started to become agressive. His sister is
also agressive. Mom has been hot-lined several times for suspected abuse. Mom
has also been arrested for welfare fraud. This child has no motivation at all
to use the methods I have taught him to help himself. His sister does pretty
well, usually is only disfluent when she is upset, or being reprimanded.
Because the behaviors are worse this year, everyone is looking to me-
assuming that his behaviors are due to his frustration with his speech. I
have answered that I really can't answer that, but to say that many other
children who do not stutter have behavior problems. We haev tried counseling
with these children. When the school social worker tried  he wouldn't talk
about anything. So we got a male intern - he wouldn't open up to him either.
I believe this child is dealing with some major problems on the home front. I
have suggested to mom that she get some outside coulseling. I really believe
that she has told them never to tell whatever secrets they are keeping. She
calls, sounding concerned, but then never carries through with suggestions.
She talks a mile a minute herself. I have also suggested that speech therapy
outside if the school setting may be helpful. She did actually make an
appointment to have him evaluated, so at least that is a step in the right
direction. My question is - when do I say enough is enough with this child?
Do we stop trying at some point. I could be waiting years fo rthis child to
become motivated. Meanwhile, I have othe rstudents to service. Has anyone
ever had to just give the child time off from therapy? How about opinions on
doing dual therapy - both at home and at a clinic? Do you think it is too
much pressure- or advantageous? I would appreciate any insights.

SUBJECT:  mouth
breather, artic.   Date:  97-09-21 11:19:56 EST
From:  MareCash

I have a 3rd grade girl on my caseload who is a mouth breather, sucks her
tongue, and has a lisp that is kindof a combined frontal and lateral to one
side. She had therpay in 1st grade with another SLP. Last year I started with
her and tried the Straight Speech program. A littlel progress was made in
tongue retraction, but she still moves it to the side, sucks her tongue, and
is a mouth breather. I realize that some oral motor thearpy is necessary. I
don't have a very good oral motor background. Luckily I am going to Sara
Rosenfield-Johnson's conference in Alabany next month. I am looking for
suggestions until then. Her mom also had a lisp when she was young - and her
sister who is in K is also displaying one!

SUBJECT:  Re:stuttering   Date:  97-09-21 17:27:07 EST
From:  StJeFrey

Good luck!  I haven't given breaks in service but I know someone who has and
she seems to think that it helps.  I have worked with children who get
service in school and outside of school.  That is very difficult to
coordinate and doesn't seem to make progress go any faster.  I would suggest
you look into long term counseling through the CSE and perhaps an outside
neuropsych eval to see if their are any other factors to consider.

SUBJECT:
Language\processing   Date:  97-09-22 20:20:14 EST
From:  KJVman

I'm looking for any information on the educational disorder!  My daughter has
been classified and I have little information about it.  She is an honor role
student!  At present.  I forsee a major change  in the future reguarding her
grades if this problem is not corrected, but I am uncertain how to help
her.  Can anyone direct me or enlighten me.  Thanks, e-mail
[e-mail].

SUBJECT:  Want to Discontinue Therapy   Date:  97-09-23 10:08:58 EST
From:  Wilstock

My hearing/speech impaired three-year-old is a "non-attending" student at a
public elem. school where she recently began full-days opposed to half-days.
Last week she suffered head injuries from falling from the top of school
playground's monkey bars (10ft. up) onto the cement ground underneath. She
received several stitches on the head, a painful and unsightly swelling and
bruises to the side of her face.
Five days later, she is her old self again. I am told by the superintendent
of public schools that all city playgrounds must have either rubber padding
or wood chips under equipment. The school's principal said they are unaware
that children were on the playground during recess, as the playground had
been closed for two years. Padding is slated to be installed in October. I
asked teacher in charge how did this happen? She says one minute my child was
on grassy ground, the next minute, falling from top of bars onto the cement.
She says it happened so fast.

THere are only four other children, 3-5 year olds in the pre-K hearing
impaired class. I am sure it would have taken some time for her to climb up
and across the bars. There are two adults, a teacher and an aid. Teacher told
me herself that the playground was off limits because the padding was not
installed. SO HOW did this happen?
She has not given me a satifactory answer yet, and I am convinced that she
was negligent in doing her job.

People think I am overreacting when I say I don't want her back in that
school, or any other school, that she needs her hearing/speech therapy, that
it was not that serious, etc.  I have spoken with several attorneys and they
say the schools are immune of litigation. What should I do? I have looked
into private therapy and cannot afford unless I relinquish raising my 3 and 1
year olds and go out to work full-time. Is there a way for a parent to work
with a speech and hearing impaired  child at home?

 I have sat in on a session with the pathologist, and honestly, it did not
look like something that would be beyond the scope of my learning to do
myself. I am NOT trying to downplay the profession of speech/language
pathologists. It just seems like if I had access to the same equipment
(headphone/mic units--hearing aids are pending) I could help my child just as
well. Please understand my position here. It certainly was not the
pathologist's fault that my daughter got hurt. But in the meantime, my child
will not be going back to that school. It is so unsettling to know that when
she has bad experiences while away all day she cannot tell me about it after
she comes home.   Any input or advice is appreciated.


SUBJECT:  Re:stuttering   Date:  97-09-24 20:16:47 EST
From:  DIremonger

Tou can get a lot of good info from the Stuttering Foundation of America. I
dont have the address with me but I believe they have a toll free
number.

SUBJECT:  KDG. Screening no ans.   Date:  97-09-25 23:02:10 EST
From:  Devster 7

It seems that no answer is really  apparent RE kdg screening. We all seem to
be in the same boat. In MA it's mandated that they receive speech screening.
We use the screening portions of the CELF PreSchl (ie. Basic Concepts, Word
Structure) and the artic. portion of the PLS (Zimmermann). We are not happy
with this but can't seem to find better. Someone mentioned investigating the
mandate to see if the SLP must do the screening... that's on my "TO DO" list
next week. Everyone's feedback is always so prompt and so helpful...even when
the  solution is not found, it's comforting to know one is not alone. Thanks
everyone.

SUBJECT:  Fast Forward   Date:  97-09-25 23:19:05 EST
From:  Stephenr

The parents of one of my second grade language students is in the process of
beginning a program called "Fast Forward".  It was described as a 6 month
intensive treatment with a visiting speech/language pathologist monitoring.
Has anyone heard of the details of this program? I'm somewhat concerned
because this child has moderate to severe deficits and I don't want these
parents to think that it will be a "quick fix".  Any info will be
appreciated!

Thanks!
Pat

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast Forwardi   Date:  97-09-26 07:02:30 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

If you want info on this topic, check out this web site:
http;www.scilearn.com. Since I haven't used it with clients, I can't speak to
how it actually works,,,Regina

SUBJECT:  Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-09-26 14:20:50 EST
From:  K for 5

Just a question - - - I know the signs of a restricted lingual frenum
(heart-shaped tongue tip, difficulty elevating for tongue click, for /t,d/,
etc) but I am unsure of what criteria a physician would look for when
deciding if the frenum should be "clipped".  Any ideas?

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted
Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-09-26 15:48:49 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I would imagine that a physician would look for very restricted tongue
mobility which would affect eating and speaking significantly.  In my
experiences in the past unless there were functional problems, the frenulum
was not clipped.  I have also seen youngsters who have adequate mobility for
speaking, but not eating.  For example, if they were eating a peanut butter
and jelly sandwich, they would not be able to move their tongue up and back
sufficiently to move the bolus of food around the mouth.  For very young
children this can be hazardous...plus the kiddos need to resort to using
their fingers to move the food around...very messy indeed.

SUBJECT:  Re:KDG.
Screening no ans.   Date:  97-09-26 17:50:46 EST
From:  Willsons

When we are told certain practices are mandated or "supposed to be done this
way," where do we go to check on that information? At times adminstrators
will insist on screening, certain paperwork, or formats of reports, or parent
contact procedures for students with IEPs . . .  and then suddenly another
year, it's not so important. Where do we read the mandates for kindergarten
screening? (State Education Office?) Where do we find the "official" policy
on how many times we must attempt to contact parents for various reasons?
(Special Ed Library on AOL?) Where does it describe the form to be used to
turn in therapy attendance records and documentation of 2xmo. collaboration
so the District can be reimbursed by Medicaid? I want to read these edicts
for myself. Are they in various places on AOL?
I don't mind complying! I mind getting conflicting or incomplete direction.
Thanks.

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-09-26 17:51:38 EST
From:  DIremonger

From what I understand, clipping the frenum is usually not done anymore
especially for speech purposes. From what I have read, most experts not
longer believe that articulation deficits are caused by a restricted frenum
except under very unusual circumstances.

SUBJECT:  selective autism   Date:  97-09-26 18:10:22 EST
From:  CSAB51

I have two students in my school that are in this category.  Not much
research is available to the public school slp. any suggestions.

SUBJECT:
Re:Fast Forward   Date:  97-09-26 18:18:52 EST
From:  Bre5

My son completed 8 weeks of Fast ForWord at a clinic, and after a 3 week
break for the start of school, he is now continuing for 2 or 3 more weeks.
The usual amount of time is from 4 to 8 weeks, not months, but many children
continue for up tp 12 weeks. The children must do the one hour and forty
minutes of games at least 5 days a week. It consists of several computer
"games" which give the children digitally stretched out speech sounds, as
phonemes and in sentences, as well as tones/musical pitches for them to match
or identify or comprehend in some way. The theory is that some language
impaired children cannot hear many consonants at the rate they are presented,
but that their brains are able to be "rewired" with enough training. So they
first hear these sounds artificially stretched out, and when the child scores
high enough, the sounds are slowly shortened down to normal length. I don't
think there is research on the long term benefits, since the therapy is new,
but the pre and post test comparisons are impressive. Most children gain a
lot in speech test scores. My son went from Severe to Mild on the CELF-3 in
the 8 weeks. Since he didn't reach a very high level in two of the most
crucial games, like the one where he tries to remember the presentation order
of a high and low tone, we decided to continue for a little longer.

SUBJECT:  Re:
Medicaid   Date:  97-09-26 18:19:06 EST
From:  CSAB51

In response to the SLP just begining to do Medicaid billing. Wait until you
have been doing five or six years .  We have developed our own daily log that
helps us submit billings daily.  This has helped greatly. Streamline your
forms and it may help.

SUBJECT:  Re: Elective/Selective Mute   Date:  97-09-26 18:45:16 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
    Here are the addresses for the "Selective Mutism Foundation, Inc."
and they provide excellent info.  They request that when writing to them for
info, please send a business sized self addressed envelope with 2 stamps
($.64)  All correspondence should include a note indicating whether the
writer is a parent, a professional, etc.   That way they can mail the
appropriate information.  There are 2 addresses:

Sue Newman, Co-Director                        Carolyn Miller, Co-Director
Box 450632                                    Box 13133
Sunrise, FL   33345                            Sissonville, WV   25360

     I think you will find it very beneficial to write to them regarding your
student who does not speak.    My student will speak at home; but not at
school, not even to other students in the first grade......  and their
brochures help us to understand.            Anne

SUBJECT:  Re:KDG. Screening no
ans.   Date:  97-09-27 09:55:54 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

You school system should have a document of district policies.  The state
department of education for your state will have state wide mandates.  Call
them.

SUBJECT:  Re: Medicaid   Date:  97-09-27 10:11:02 EST
From:  Willsons

I'm not new. :-) At one time I was an itinerant and each school district
required a different form to relay the same information for Medicaid. A
person of authority in my current school district sternly lectured all of the
special education personnel about filling out these forms (I had done mine
faithfully), and implied there was a specific form required, yet didn't have
a sample to show us. We'll work it out. However, if you have a form that you
think is particulary good - streamlined and purposeful - I'd love to see
it.

SUBJECT:  Re:KDG. Screening no ans.   Date:  97-09-27 10:11:48 EST
From:  Willsons

Thanks Shelley. Somehow I knew you would have the answer. It's just common
sense, yet sometimes we get so busy we don't pursue those basics. I probably
have those papers filed right in my room!

SUBJECT:  New Speech Teacher ?'s   Date:  97-09-27 13:31:45 EST
From:  VTFarm

Hi. I just took over a 40-student caseload for a speech pathologist that flew
the coop right before school opened this fall ... lots to be done here!.  I'd
appreciate your suggestions and ideas on how to best assist  1) AD/HD
students with artic, expressive & receptive lang problems,  2) a K student
who's on IEP for artic, expressive & receptive lang & "borderline Tourette's"
(new one on me), and  3) an 8-year old who can hear a lawn mower start up on
the other side of  school, but says "what?" at my every question & lives in a
fog (autism was suggested, but not proved yet).  I look forward to your
replies - thanks in advance!     -O

SUBJECT:  Re:caseload in Calif.   Date:  97-09-28 00:41:38 EST
From:  Regroot

I per 1000 students seems abit off to me.  I work in Stanislaus County and
all I know is that we have to qualify for IPS units from the state.  These
are shared with the entire county based on an "average" caselaod of 55.  If
you had 1 per 1000 that would mean an average caseload of approx. 100
students per therapist.   HUMMMM.... let me know what you find out.

Beth

SUBJECT:  Comp. Software   Date:  97-09-28 00:49:36 EST
From:  Regroot

If any one has any good speech/language software for IBM/windows please E
Mail me at:  Regroot.  Our district is purchasing some now and so far we have
not made very good selections.  Thank you in advance for your time!!!!!
Beth

SUBJECT:  Re:Comp. Software   Date:  97-09-28 07:38:20 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

Can you be more specific as to what areas of software you are interested in?
Lang? Gen artic? Voice and Voicing? Hearing Impaired?Central Auditory
Processing? I'd be happy to suggest some titles if you can point me in the
direction of what you are looking for...some good genegral software...Edmark:
                 Bailey's Book House
               Davidson
                 Ready for School
                 My First Encyclopedia
            Jump Start Series
               Jump Start Preschool, Kindergarten, etc.
            Microsoft
               Magic School Bus
            Davidson
               Kid Phonics(one of my faves!!!)
               Ready for School
           The Learning Company
               Reader Rabbit 2
                                          There is also software specific to
artic,etc. Post back and I'll try to help...Regina

SUBJECT:  Re:Comp. Software   Date:  97-09-28 10:21:59 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

If you are looking for programs for the more severely handicapped, look at
Laureate's programs (First Nouns, First Verbs, etc).  These are not hard to
manage and I've used them with the MR and autistic populations.

Personally, I'd stay away from the Living Books that are only stories.  If
you want to buy these try ones which teach a skill within the story
(Chicka-Chicka Boom Boom for alphabet, for example).

StickyBear Early Learning Series is also good for prek.

I have also been looking at some ESL programs to teach vocabulary.  So far
the best I've found is one called, "All in One Language Fun."  The other
programs I have seen so far are not geared for the primary level which is
where I work.  Our computer tech just ordered one called, "First 1000 Words"
but it is backordered so I don't have any first hand experience with it.



SUBJECT:  supervising a student SLP   Date:  97-09-28 17:06:54 EST
From:  LCVRUDA

I am about to begin a semester supervising a student clinician at my school
where I work with children in grades 3 to 6. I want the experience to be a
good one for him and I'm looking for SLP's who have had experience with this
before. What are the do's and don'ts? How did you set up the practicum? Did
it take a lot of time away from your other responsibilites, etc.
I will be anxious to hear from anyone who has done this.
Thank you.
L. Ruda

SUBJECT:  Re:mouth breather, artic.   Date:  97-09-28 17:59:40 EST
From:  OromotorSP

I read your message about tongue thrusting/interdental lisp and am really
happy that you will be at my class next month.  I promise that I will teach
you at least 5 specific exercises that you can use to eliminate the habitual
tongue forward posture.   In the meantime, have the client drink through a
straw.  Measure how far it goes into his/her mouth.  If it goes in more than
1/4 inch, see if she is biting or sucking on it.  If so, she is exercising
her tongue protrusion everytime she drinks.  Try to teach her to drink using
only her lips.  That will teach tongue retraction. Good luck.
Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson

SUBJECT:  use of ASL w/ normal hearing   Date:  97-09-28 20:56:48 EST
From:  Melism1

HELP PLEASE:

I'm working toward a degree in special ed, but I also am a lead teacher for
an afterschool program that consists of kids with all kinds of disabilities.
Many of them, though they have normal hearing, are taught some basic sign.
I'm trying to do some research for both a class and my personal benefit...
Can anybody lead me in the right direction to where I might be able to find
some concrete information about the use of Sign with children who are
Autistic, have Down's etc...  I'd greaty appreciate any info.

Melissa
Melism1

SUBJECT:  Re:use of ASL w/ normal hearin   Date:  97-09-28 22:01:03 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Hi Melissa,
    I too have been interested in the use of fingerspelling/sign language for
improvement of reading, apraxia, etc.    I found some helpful info, and other
interesting messages in the section of the special ed message board dealing
with sign language, which I think is listed below this area on the screen of
all the different titles......Happy reading to you :)        Anne

SUBJECT:  Fast
forward   Date:  97-09-30 15:22:29 EST
From:  Ljhays

Can anyone tell me what the Fast Forward program costs.  I am trying to see
if it would benefit my son who has articulation problems.

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast
forward   Date:  97-09-30 16:32:20 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I'm going to the ASHA convention in Boston and am very much looking forward
to the product displays.  Fast Forward will be on display there, as will many
other products we hear about from others.  The displays give me a chance to
look at and try some products that I've heard about or read about.  Sometimes
the catalogs just aren't clear enough.  I've gotten some fabulous therapy
material ideas from the ASHA displays.  Actually, they're my favorite part of
the convention.

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast forward   Date:  97-09-30 20:35:34 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

As a parent, you can only "purchase" the therapy which is a little steep if
articulation is his only problem.  If, however, his articulation problem is
related to a Central Auditory Processing Problem, it might be worth
investigating. It's relatively new and therapists are being trained to do it
at workshops...talk to your SLP before doing anything else...Regina

SUBJECT:
Re:Fast forward   Date:  97-09-30 20:43:29 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

By the way, the web site for FastForword is http://www.scilearn.com
                    Regina

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-10-01 14:46:04 EST
From:  Carol123d

What was the variance from performance IQ and verbal IQ?  You need to find
that out...

Aphasic kids CAN learn...they need to be visually supported.

I am a parent of an aphasic student as well.  It is hard for the schools (&
scary for parents) because aphasia is usually found in nursing homes, not in
schools, so the expertise will probably have to be brought in.

I would suggest the team work with 2 key individuals...a neuropsychologist
who has EXPERIENCE with aphasia/brain injuried children, and an EXPERIENCED
aphasia trained speech and language person.  Often, your district will not
have these two people on board...so they need to be hired as consultants.

Unfortunately, some kids are expensive....and this child should likely have a
technology assessment done as well.  He should have a lap top with things
like Co:Writer, Write Out Loud, and perhaps voice recognition software.

Some teachers (& more often admistrators) bulk at the expense.  But, the IDEA
and ADA are there to protect that each child is taught in a way that he can
learn.  Sometimes people think that FAIR is to teach each child the
same...but fairness is finding the ways that this student CAN learn.

I've got a list of modifications that have worked for us...and am working
currently on a collaborative program for teachers/parents for kids with
severe language disabilities.  I'd be happy to discuss or help you or the
parents if I can.  Hopefully, you don't go to due process....but you've got
to understand the parents view too...it is a scarey thing..as they are the
ones that will be left holding the bag when he's 18 if the school fails
him...so they need move into an advocacy position as well. Unfortunately, the
system is failing many of these kids.

With my son, they tried to place him with mentally retarded children too.
Thank GOD I got that stopped!  His performance IQ is  nearly 130, although
the verbal IQ is quite low.  He CAN learn...but needs a ton of support to
meet his needs.  Imagine where he'd be today if I hadn't advocated....I
shudder to think!

He has a full time one on one aide, speech every day 1:1 and modifications in
place.  It isn't easy, in fact...it is a struggle for us all...but David
didn't ask to have a stroke...and these kids CAN succeed.  None of us want
them on the Social security roles at 18!  We have a responsiblity...morally
as well as legally.

It can be hard to advocate too as a teacher...I know that administations can
draw the lines...but it is your signature on the IEP too...and the law
clearly is on the side of the child.  If I were you....I'd advocate for the
child so I could sleep well at night, knowing I'd done what was right.

I am speaking at the aphasia conference in June on aphasia/school issues.  If
you have ideas/concerns/needs...let me know.  My goal is to help parents and
teachers truly team together for the sake of the child.

Let me know if I can [e-mail].




SUBJECT:  Educators/SPL please read!   Date:  97-10-01 14:55:21 EST
From:  Carol123d

I'm speaking at a conference regarding the re-entry of language impaired
students into their home schools following stroke/TBI/disease.

What challenges are you finding at your schools?  What is your case load
like?  Do you have time to adequately educate these kids?  Are you finding
support (aids/inservice) to inclusion?  What are your questions?  Are there
appropriate modications being made?  Is technology supported in your school?
How?

Let me know what on your mind...it will help me develop a more appropriate
presentation with "real life" examples/concerns.  If you email me..let me
know if you'd like to be informed about the presentation and literature that
can be downloaded later and I'll send the presentation back to you upon
completion.  No names/districts will be used.

Email me at [e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-10-01 17:26:53 EST
From:  R u Niz

Both Performance and Verbal IQ's were in the Mentally Retarded Range.  There
is no history of stroke.  I am not suggesting that this student be "labeled"
retarded--I do think that he has a Cognitive Disability.

Parents have decided now that his problems will be solved when he gets his
new Scotopic lenses.  I am losing my mind.

SUBJECT:  Re:Robyn - Multiple labels   Date:  97-10-01 18:31:15 EST
From:  Enunse8

DITTO!!  I am an SLP who can't accomplish any thing because I have no
time!!

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-10-01 18:39:49 EST
From:  Ratatat

<Parents have decided now that his problems will be solved when he gets his
new Scotopic lenses.  I am losing my mind.>

Oh, Lord.  Could you suggest they attempt a trial with cellophane sheets
first? Same result, lots less time and a lot less money.  The scotopic lens
evaluations and glasses are EXPENSIVE and there is absolutely NO research to
support their use.

SUBJECT:  Re:Want to Discontinue Therapy   Date:  97-10-01 20:16:21 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Dear concerned mom-
  You have every right to be upset.  You are trusting the care of your child
to the schoo personel and have every reason to expect her to be well cared
for.  I'm sure her teachers feel awful too!  However, your daughter needs
consistent therapy from trained professionals.  If I were you I would call a
meeting of all involved to discuss her program and ensure that something like
this will never happen again!  The team may want to consider an additional
assistant if supervision is not adequate or a different play area.  The
important thing is to keep yourself part of the team and work through the
problem.  It's a fine line for parents to be advocates without becoming
adversarial.  In the best interest of your child, she needs to continue
therapy-  It is *not* something you can do at home with a tape recorder and
headphones!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Speech therapy   Date:  97-10-01 21:41:31 EST
From:  Erechen

My six year old son is hearing impaired and receives services of a teacher of
the hearing impaired and a speech therapist in a public school.  He worked
with the same speech therapist during his kindergarten year and she worked
exclusively on the TH sound.  Not being educated in the field of speech and
language, I thought she knew what she was doing.  During this past summer, I
felt he needed to continue speech therapy so he worked privately with a
therapist who had worked with him in preschool and made unbelievable
progress.  She informed me that because of the constant drilling of the TH
sound, my son has a lisp and has regressed.  To make matters even better, he
has to work with this same therapist this year.  I had the private therapist
report her findings to the school therapist and she openly admitted that she
hasn't had "recent experience working with a hearing impaired child".  The
assistant principal told me perhaps "a deaf school is the answer".  I have
the private therapist working with my son one day a week throughout the
school year and am fighting with my insurance to help pay for it.  But I am
still disappointed in my district who feel the answer to the inexperience of
the speech therapist is to
have the hearing impaired teacher keep an eye on her.  That poor teacher
works between 2 districts and doesn't have to train this woman.  I have
sought the help of a parent mediator and I just wanted more input before I
speak to the school board etc.   P.S. my son doesn't require special ed
setting and functions very well with the use of his hearing aids and auditory
trainer,so the comment of the asst. principal was truly ignorant.   Thanks!
Erechen


SUBJECT:  Re:KDG. Screening no ans.   Date:  97-10-01 23:13:13 EST
From:  Devster 7

My concerns and questions are the same as those posted by"Willsons" on
9/26/97.

SUBJECT:  I need ideas..   Date:  97-10-01 23:38:20 EST
From:  DIremonger

One of the children on my caseload is a 6 year old developmentally delayed,
in a class for severely handicapped. He is non-verbal, has global cognitive
delays and behavior problems. His nother (who happens to also work for our
district as an OT) wants a PLAN for her son so that he can communicate. He
knows a few signs.(But wont use them spontaneously) A picture communication
system was tried but so far he is very concrete and pictures are pretty
meaningless.
This population is not my expertise but I feel that I am expected to be the
one to create this PLAN and help implement it. Any ideas??

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-10-02 17:04:45 EST
From:  R u Niz

Ratatat--You made me chuckle.  I knew if you saw the note about the scotopic
lenses you would respond.

When the parents announced at the IEP meeting that the problems their child
was experiencing was due to SSS and offered to lend one of my colleagues the
book, I told them I had a copy of the book.  I asked them if they knew of any
recent research because the last I'd heard there was none that truly
supported Irlen's claims--only research performed by Irlen
specialists--testimonials.  They immediately handed me a list of six
references.  I checked them out--they were all by Irlen specialists--and I
found a few others that were very negative toward Irlen.

Now I have to find a non-threatening way to share this information.
Unfortunately, I know these particular parents will not listen.  I am being
very supportive of the student with the overlay--encouraging the use of the
overlay, reminding the student to use it.  After two days, the novelty has
worn off and the student doesn't seem to want to use it.  I have seen no
difference in this student's ability with or without the overlay, but Mom
claims it is miraculous.  We are waiting for the glasses...

SUBJECT:  Re: Aphasia   Date:  97-10-02 19:41:09 EST
From:  Ratatat

< I checked them out--they were all by Irlen specialists--and I found a few
others that were very negative toward Irlen.>

Exactly my experience check our the Irlen lenses.  What's interesting too is
that the Irlen people want you to have an a thorough eye exam before they
begin their evaluation... and guess what?  They give you the name of the
optometrist to use.  Duh.  OTOH, speak to almost any pediatric
ophthalmologist and get ready for an earful about what garbage the Irlen
leses are.

SUBJECT:  picture communication boards   Date:  97-10-02 20:18:52 EST
From:  Girafe58

Hi! I am very excited to have found this message board!  What a thrill!   I
am presently working in a private special education school servicing a wide
range of children with varying difficulties ages preschool through 10 years
of age.  Our program is in the process of developing an augmentative
communication program in a classroom of prelinguistic/preverbal-early verbal
children.  I am in the process of writing a proposal and developing a grant
to fund this program.  It will be picture board based with each child having
a representation of the activity-board as well the facilitator who will be
conducting the lesson.

Any ideas for resources?  Activities?
Thanks so much for sharing.
Donna


SUBJECT:  Re:selective autism   Date:  97-10-02 21:36:43 EST
From:  Carjoja

Just a couple of questions, before I tell if I could help or not, I teach
autistic children in an inclusion setting 1/2 day/ Lovaas program the other
1/2, and I have an autistic child myself. First off, SELECTIVE autism???
That's a new one on me. Where did that label come from, pray tell?Also, what
are the ages of the students, current language abilities, etc?? I am
interested.
Dawn

SUBJECT:  Re:New Speech Teacher ?'s   Date:  97-10-02 21:43:02 EST
From:  Carjoja

Might be able to help you on #3/ suspect of autism: Tell the school
psychologist you want a CARS test done on the child (something Autism Rating
Scale) or GARS (can't even remember what that one stands for)! If it turns
out to be, let me know, I might be able to help. I sort of specialize in
autism. I'm a parent of one and teacher of students with autism.
Dawn

SUBJECT:  Re:  Selective Mutism/Autism   Date:  97-10-02 22:11:48 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Greetings,
    I have just heard of the selective mutism.....checked back and my
messages say mutism......perhaps the person who wrote autism had many things
on her mind.....     selective autism would be even more interesting!
Anne

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-10-02 23:51:46 EST
From:  DebOnWeb30

Lingual frenums have an impact on dental structure and development as well as
on speech and eating.  I have a child on my caseload who recently was
"clipped" after consultation with an orthodontist.  I had noted the tight
lingual frenum to his parents, and had suggested that it was interfering with
his speech (articulation of /r/), but I stopped short of ever making a
recommendation about it being clipped (for one thing, his dad was a
dentist!).  It was interesting that it ended up "needing" to be clipped for
dental reasons.  I agree that it may not be a common problem for our
articulation cases, but it still does come up and it definitely can impair
speech production if the frenum is restrictive enough.

On another note, I have another child on my caseload who had his frenum
clipped almost 2 years ago (before I even started at this school).  He has
terrible tongue control now--it has a tendency to flip over when he tries to
move it into position for /r/.  This is the only sound he cannot "get" yet,
but he is in 4th grade, and I am at a loss....I have sent oral-motor
exercises home, but I don't think he really does them much.  It is very
difficult to do oral-motor stuff in a therapy group, because he gets too
self-consious (especially if the others in the group don't need to be doing
it), and I don't have the luxury within my caseload numbers to work with him
alone.  His mom was planning on contacting this oro-facial myologist in our
area, to see if that might help, but she hasn't done that yet (I had expected
her to do this over the summer).  Right now, he has been put on "consult"
because the student has been in speech therapy for years (many other sounds
have been succesfully corrected), and really needs a break.  But what to do
for him....?  Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks (and sorry this is so long).
Debby

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-10-03 05:30:37 EST
From:  MareCash

I have two students on my caseload who also arein 4th gade and just can not
seem to get the  /r/ sound down. And I haev tried everything. I will be
interested to see any comments you receive form your post. I also am
interested in the comments about doing oral moor excercises in groups. I am
in the same boat - a large caseload - no time for the individual therapy. I
am going to Sara Rosenfeld  Johnson's conference in Albany NY this month. I
hope to pick up some good info. I can share it at a later date.

SUBJECT:
Re:Speech therapy   Date:  97-10-03 07:13:48 EST
From:  SPCHRGM

I don't know why your school SLP was working on /th/, but since she is the
one working with him during the year, have you tried:
                           1. Meeting with all parties, i.e. like a child
study meeting to coordinate goals? Sounds like a communication problem here .
                           2. Having the two SLP's sit down together and
coordinate goals and objectives. Since the private SLP knows more about the
hearing impaired, she could help the school SLP. As a private therapist
myself(who does some work in the schools) I am not at all adverse to sitting
down with a school based SLP when we share clients or even to discuss
transitions. Not all SLP's are educated in working with the hearing
impaired(or autistic, or other"specialty areas"). When I was working in the
schools I got more proficient at what I dealt with on a day to day basis and
that tended to be artic. and language.  Its also one of the reasons I am a
private therapist now...more variety and a chance to do more "special
populations)
              3. Have the school district pay for the child's private therapy
if they cannot provide the service. This is what happens sometimes when the
school cannot provide what the child needs. Your child has the right to
appropriate therapy.
              I would try to coordinate services first if the therapists are
not adversarial. Get your director of Special Education Involved. I would
also use the teacher of the Hearing Impaired as a resource...after all, the
goal is to help your child...Regina
.

SUBJECT:  Upcoming Earobics Exhibits   Date:  97-10-03 15:39:07 EST
From:  Concepts1

Hello!
A number of professionals & parents have been asking about conferences at
which Cognitive Concepts, Inc. will be exhibiting the Earobics Auditory
Development & Phonics CD-ROM programs. Here's a list of the conferences we
will be attending in October and November 1997. We hope to see you there!

Symposium on the Assessment & Management of Central Auditory Processing
Disorders, October 17-18 at the Ramada Plaza Hotel in Greenville, NC.
Sponsored by East Carolina University, 919-816-5205.

The International Dyslexia Association 48th Annual Conference, November 12-15
at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Minneapolis, MN. Booth #119. Sponsored by the
Orton Dyslexia Association, 410-296-0232.

The American Speech-Language-Hearing Association 1997 Annual Convention,
November 20-23 in Boston, MA. Booth #229. Sponsored by the American
Speech-Language-Hearing Association, 301-897-5700.

For more information about Earobics, please visit our website at
www.cogcon.com.

SUBJECT:  Re:Comp. Software   Date:  97-10-03 17:20:12 EST
From:  Peggy 620

There is a fabulous program called "Simon Sounds it Out" made by Don
Johnston.  I have the Mac version but I think it may also be available for
Windows I know they were working on it).

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast forward   Date:  97-10-03 17:43:30 EST
From:  Peggy 620

The FastForward program is VERY expensive.  The parents have to buy the CD
which costs $800.  Then you need Internet access with Netscape Navigator (AOL
does NOT work).  I believe your computer needs at least 24 MGs of Ram also.
Then the program can only be administered by a certified therapist.  Most of
them charge between $1000 and $3000 for the 2-4 month course of the program.
If your medical insurance pays for speech therapy and your private SLP is
certified for FastForward, your insurance may pick up most of the cost (but
not the cost of the CD).  Don't forget to add in your time - most kids need
to have someone sit with them to keep them on task at least for the first 2
weeks, and sometimes longer.  The program requires almost 2 hours every day,
5 days a week.

SUBJECT:  Re:I need ideas..   Date:  97-10-03 22:28:23 EST
From:  JBlakeG

you said that you tried pictures, but what kind. Maybe you need to start by
finding out at waht level of symbolic representation he is at. Maybe he needs
to start with an object board, or a photo board. Maybe the line drawings used
were too vague, or not concrete enough. Perhaps you have availability to an
Assistive Technology Resource that could help you with an informal
assessement.
Good luck! And don't give up.
Also think about how you are training him. With severly disabled, make the
"training" part of a daily routine. Model the use of the pics as you would
the speech. YOU need to use the pics as you would want him to. That was a
really good lesson for me to learn. If you want more specific info, you can
email me at [e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:picture communication board   Date:  97-10-03 22:30:56 EST
From:  JBlakeG

Donna-
Are you by any chance working in Morris County NJ? If you are, I know who you
are, and you know me. Pleae email me if you know Mindy, Arlene, Daryl, and
Helen and Betsy!!!
[e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-10-03 22:34:23 EST
From:  JBlakeG

Yea, that r is a bugger!
Try "Oral Motor Techniques for Articulation Threapy" it's either Pamela
Marshalla or Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson. It has helped me in the past!!!
Julie

SUBJECT:  children developing own lang   Date:  97-10-04 13:26:41 EST
From:  Aim a roo

I'm looking for information (books, authors..) on children who use their own
ways of communicating similar to twins' language.

SUBJECT:  Re:Fast forward   Date:  97-10-05 08:57:20 EST
From:  Galiemla

I was just browsing the net and found an interesting site that includes some
messages from people who have used Fast Forward.  You might find it
interesting.  The address is
http://thearc.org/wwwboard/messages/3439/html

SUBJECT:  jobs available   Date:  97-10-05 20:11:07 EST
From:  Choatie

There are several openings for speech pathologists in the Clark County School
System in Nevada.  At this time we are the 10th largest district in the
country.  There are tremendous opportunities for advancement and training.
If any SLPs are interested please e-mail me and I will be happy to share the
particulars.  Thanks!

SUBJECT:  fastforward    Date:  97-10-06 20:51:15 EST
From:  BPA20

I would like information on a computerized speech program called FastForward.
It is an intensive six week program for children with speech problems.
Please let me know of any successes and/or failures.

SUBJECT:  Whole Language   Date:  97-10-06 22:18:38 EST
From:  RSamuel179

I am a speech path.  graduate student looking for articles of whole language
(pro and cons) for a paper.  would appreciate any info.

thanks

SUBJECT:  Re:I need ideas..   Date:  97-10-07 18:44:52 EST
From:  TLVAIL

I would come up with 10 basic words that everyone on the team wants him to be
able to communicate as a beginning "core" vocabulary.  Then, try matching
pictures to objects/actions, progressing to identifying pictures.  At the
same time, continue with the signs and make sure everyone working with him
knows the signs and uses them with him throughout the day.  If pictures don't
end up working (can't associate) you can try using the actual objects as an
"exchange" system.  The key is to be sure communication training is going on
all through the school day and at home or you won't get very far!  You also
might try using some switches for frequent phrases like"I need help" or "I
need to use the bathroom".  Good Luck!

SUBJECT:  Re:picture communication board   Date:  97-10-07 18:46:54 EST
From:  TLVAIL

Donna- The Myer Johnson Boardmaker program and the "engineering Preschool
Classrooms" books would be very helpful!

SUBJECT:  Re:Comp. Software   Date:  97-10-07 23:30:58 EST
From:  Beanie7783

I am interested in software (IBM windows) to use with Deaf Elementary-High
School kids. Computer programs for Deaf/Hearing High School students that
will teach"functional" language skills that will help in transition.
Vocabulary building, sequencing skills, verb tense practice...Also any
software report or record keeping programs you all are using would help me
also...I am appplying for a lap top via Tech fund proposal. I would
appreciate e-mail if any of you have ideas! Thanks  Beanie7783

SUBJECT:
Re:picture communication board   Date:  97-10-08 15:26:10 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

We have found that photographs of the actual items work better than the Meyer
Johnson drawings for some children.  It's just one less step for them to
take.  We photograph the "tne most wanted items" and usually items from the
classroom like the centers or bathroom.  If the child can make the transition
from the real thing to black line drawings than the Mayer Johnson pictures
are fine.

SUBJECT:  Re:Restricted Lingual Frenum   Date:  97-10-10 19:58:20 EST
From:  Pnducharme

About a year and a half ago, I posted an inquiry concerning my young son's
severely restricted lingual frenulum.  The information and e-mail I received
was quite helpful!  In fact, I used the information to further research the
issue, which ultimately resulted in our son having surgery in July to clip
the frenulum.

My son, who is 3 and 1/2, still needs speech therapy for articulation
problems; he also has not yet learned how to elevate his tongue.  However, I
expect that he will learn to do so over time, with the continued intervention
of therapists.

What is interesting to me is the pervasive view in the medical field that
clipping is just not necessary.  Once we actively pursued the issue, we were
startled to find out that it IS being done.  Our surgeon told us that he
personally does one per month.  While this is obviously not a huge number, it
shows that the technique is required on occasion.







SUBJECT:  Re:picture communication boa   Date:  97-10-13 16:29:03 EST
From:  AmyL38

Hi, I have found that actual photographs representing people. places and
things in the child's life to be more effective than graphics. This is
especially true for those whose cognitive level is lower in the severe to
mild range. For the profound students, I actually used objects, for the
tactile and 3 dimension visual information. For those with sensory
impairments (Visual and Auditory) I combined olfactory cues with tactile cue.
For more information please e-mail me at [e-mail].

SUBJECT:  PROMPT   Date:  97-10-13 17:49:03 EST
From:  LeftyCMG

I recently received a copy of a student's oral-motor evaluation conducted by
an associate of Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson.  In the recommendations section it
mentions feeding therapy, oral-motor exercises, etc. It also recommended
utilizing "PROMPT."  I am not familiar with this program(?) and would
appreciate help from anyone who has any experience with it.

Thanks a bunch,
Colleen

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-13 21:12:55 EST
From:  ACTDS

What merits whether a child receives language services, if you have a private
evaluation that shows a functioning very low in receptive and expressive
language.

He presents difficulties in receptive/expressive language skills,
receptive/expressive vocabulary skills and language processing.  Expressive
language skills are characterized by decreased verbal
organization/sequencing, and decreased ability to formulate compound/ complex
sentences.  Receptively, he demonstrates difficulty comprehending many
linguistic concepts, following oral directions, understanding surface
structure of language, recalling and understanding information from oral
paragraphs, and making predictions and inferences.

I do visit the classroom, he is desperately trying to be a part of the
mainstream English class with support of a special education assistant. I
want to work with our IEP team, however I feel there might be some opposition
from some of the team.  We have a meeting scheduled to talk about whether our
son merit being coded.  I live in New Hampshire and I am not aware of the
laws for coding children.  The facility I utilized was the same facility I
was sent to in the beginning of the school year by the school.  The facility
and evaluator had told us that there was no way that the school could ignore
these finding and not offer some services.

I am just being nervous or is there anything else I should do?
Please help me.
Micky

SUBJECT:  Re:Frenulum   Date:  97-10-14 01:39:56 EST
From:  NMCHILI

Does anyone know the medical term for clipping of the frenulum....is it a
frenectomy?  I am writing a report and would like to use the correct "medical
term" for this procedure.
Thanks,
Cheryl (NMCHILI)

Also would be interested in goals anyone has written for phonemic awareness
as it relates to articulation/phonological process disorders.
....Now that I'm on a roll, does anyone know of a book or articles dealing
with CAPD?  I have been hearing
so much about this but feel like I don't understand what it really is or it's
identifying behaviors.  I have a hard time just explaining what an auditory
processing disorder is...it is an extremely broad subject which overlaps many
areas....help me!(I'm a SLP in an elementary school).
You can e-mail me @NMCHILI@aol
Thanks a bunch!  ;_0

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-14 06:16:14 EST
From:  Ratatat

< We have a meeting scheduled to talk about whether our son merit being
coded.  I live in New Hampshire and I am not aware of the laws for coding
children.  The facility I utilized was the same facility I was sent to in the
beginning of the school year by the school.  The facility and evaluator had
told us that there was no way that the school could ignore these finding and
not offer some services. >

Each state has it's own specific definitions of what qualifies as eligibility
requirements for a child being catagorized as Specific Learning Disabled.
You need to get a copy of the rule and procedures, which are on file with
your district offices.  You should plan on becoming VERY familiar, even
expert, on the laws, rules and procedures so that you can best advocate for
your child and make sure his needs are appropriately met through an IEP
(INDIVIDUALIZED Education Program).  Also, see if you can find a copy of
"Negotiating the Special Education Maze, third edition."  It's an important
resource.

SUBJECT:  Re:Frenulum   Date:  97-10-14 06:17:55 EST
From:  Ratatat

<....Now that I'm on a roll, does anyone know of a book or articles dealing
with CAPD?>

Do you know of the book by Patricia McAleer Hamaguchi, "Childhood Speech,
Language and Listening Problems."

SUBJECT:  Re:Frenum   Date:  97-10-14 07:47:32 EST
From:  Lmazzola

Yes, clipping the frenum is called a frenectomy. My daughter had it done
several years ago because the frenum was too long and thick (sounds pretty
gross ;-).

Lisa

SUBJECT:  Oral-Motor Supplies   Date:  97-10-14 14:36:44 EST
From:  DebOnWeb30

Does anyone know of a good resource for such oral-motor supplies as
Toothettes, Ora-Swabs, jaw resistance bands, tubing, tongue depressors, nose
flutes, etc...?  I know you can buy them from Speech Dynamics, but am
wondering if there is a more economical source.  Thanks!

e mail me at DebOnWeb30

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-14 15:08:13 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

There is more information needed here to determine if this child needs
services and what type would be indicated.  I'm assuming that the receptive
and expressive language delays are significant (1-1 to 1/2 standard
deviations below the mean for the child's age).  That being the case, I would
wonder what other data has been collected.  How does the child perform in his
classes at school?  Look at portfolios of actual work.  Look at progress
across all school areas including special subjects (art, pe, music).  Has
this child had a comprehensive evaluation...educational and psychological?
The child's overall cognitive ability should be taken into consideration.
For example, if the child's ability is average the therapy might be different
than if it, too, was in the very low range.  Are there any acuity (vision,
hearing) difficulties that could be impacting the growth of speech/language
skills?  How about medical issues?  How was overall development (walking,
talking, etc.)?  How are the child's daily adaptive skills and social skills?


I know these a lots of questions, but when a child's language scores are in
the very low range I feel it is prudent to gain as much information as
possible before formulating a plan.  I hope that this is what your school is
doing.

SUBJECT:  Re:Speech therapy   Date:  97-10-15 18:28:53 EST
From:  SunStar23

You have every right as a parent to be outraged at this intense level of
incompetence!  You have a lot of rights as a parent, and you should mention
this at the meeting you call to discuss your child's program!  Any basic
level SLP should know what to do for a kid with a hearing impairment, it's
really not that difficult to figure out.  Let me know if i can help!
Sunstar23

SUBJECT:  Re:I need ideas..   Date:  97-10-15 18:31:02 EST
From:  SunStar23

Have you tried photographs of areas of the room and play choices?  Even more
concrete is a box of actual objects- one box for choices and one for done,
even.  Pictures are probably too abstract at this point anyway.  Set up a
routine if you can!

Sunstar23

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-16 16:49:56 EST
From:  ACTDS

We had our meeting, our child will be receiving services as Speech and
Language Impaired.  The recommendation as stated from the evaluation is as
follows:  developing strategies to facilitate language processing, language
formation and vocabulary skills.  What do this all mean I do not understand.
I have another meeting to discuss therapy and how much therapy.  Could
someone give me some insight as to what the therapy would be given the
recommendations.  Also can the parent be involved in the development of goals
for the therapy.  What books or information can I retrieve on my own so I
understand what therapy is.

And finally, I would like to thank those of you who responded to my
request.

SUBJECT:  artic strategies wanted   Date:  97-10-16 19:57:37 EST
From:  GBHigdon

I am trying to compile a booklet of tried and true artic strategies,
especially to help with those difficult lateral lisps and vocalic /r/.  I
would appreciate ANY ideas for ANY sound.  I would also be happy to share the
compiled strategies with anyone who is interested.  Please email me with any
strategies you could donate or if you are interested in receiving it.  Thank
you very much in advance!
Beth
[e-mail]

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-17 00:14:36 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, your wrote:

< Also can the parent be involved in the development of goals for the
therapy.  >

Yes you can in fact you can develope goals and interventions with the team to
help your child.
First you have to understand what the exact problems your child is facing, so
tommorrow call the school and ask to speak to the speical education teachers
have her explain what each problem is in plain english. Ask her what kind of
problem this will have at school. Such as does this mean my child will have
problems with math, english etc. Ask is there a broader label that applies to
the problems your child is having. Tell her you want to understand the
catagory that the disability falls under so you can read more about it and be
able to spot problems that need addresing at home and school.

Go back to Ratatat's post follow that advice. It is really what you need to
know. Don't get upset you will learn as you go, but you must learn. That
means reading up about your childs particular LD's and learning the special
education process. You need both if your child is too be sucessfull and he
will. Just take one step at a time. Keep asking questions here.
Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:auditory processing   Date:  97-10-18 20:30:09 EST
From:  VCB44

I have a book called "Auditory Processes" by Pamela Gillet.  It is just a
little paperback, but is crammed full of information, even has a list of
suggestion for the classroom.  I think it is from Academic Therapy
Publications.  I recently loaned it to a friend of mine so I'm doing this
from memory.

SUBJECT:  Re:PROMPT   Date:  97-10-18 22:59:34 EST
From:  K for 5

Check out "Apraxia-Kids" home page (www.avenza.com/~apraxia/index.html).
They have some nice info on Prompt within their "Speech-Language Topics"
under "Speech Therapy" page.  You can also e-mail Prompt at "[e-mail]"
and request them to send you info.  They will send out a couple of brochures,
etc, that explain their program, provide a listing of their services as well
as training dates around the country, etc.
Kerry

SUBJECT:  LSH position.........   Date:  97-10-19 02:38:16 EST
From:  Beanie7783

I received an inquiry into my postfor a LSH position last month..I
accidentlly erased it..will the person who e-mailed me try again?? I promise
I'll stay away from the delete button! Beanie

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-20 20:00:00 EST
From:  ACTDS

My child has an assistant teacher going with him to his mainstream class. The
assistant is instructed to write down the homework assignment for this
student.  I have visited the classroom and observed that the information is
posted on the bulletin board.  It becomes a problem when the assistant is
absent and another assistant takes her place.  I don't think the information
is being carried over to the person covering for the absent assistant.  I was
considering asking the teacher for an outline of homework but I then realized
that he is quite overwhelmed with a overcrowded classroom.  I believe I need
a better system of retrieving homework for my son.  I would also like to note
that his ability to copy items of the bulletin board is difficult for him.
His writing is extremely immature which is noted in his IEP, and so I need
some method that could fix this problem.  Any ideas!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving
Services   Date:  97-10-20 23:00:51 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, you wrote:

<   I was considering asking the teacher for an outline of homework but I
then realized that he is quite overwhelmed with a overcrowded classroom>

Since your problem only occurrs when the regular assistant is not there. Why
not a couple of phone numbers of othe students in the class to cover those
days when the assitant doesn't copy the homework off the board.

Another stratagie is to have the regular assistant get a list of the homework
for you to be given on Friday the week before it is to be done. That way you
would know ahead of time, if there are any changes they could then just send
a note home with the change in assignment for that day. If you opt for this
system an agenda would be a good thing to start using . All the homework
listed by day and then changes could be added right on the same agenda.

If I had one thing that I wish schools could have started earlier is the use
of an agenda for all students in elementary school. Our middle school
supplied them for the children and it really helps.

If you think this won't help write a post again.
Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-21 12:40:50 EST
From:  Peggy 620

I agree with Barb re: use of an agenda for homework.  We use them starting in
third grade in our K-8 school (cost is $5 per student).  On days when the
aide is not there, just ask the child who sits next to yours to please copy
the homework for your child. We have done this when my fourth grader's aide
has not been there and it is not a problem.  An organized teacher can also
give you the assignments for the entire week in advance if he/she wants to
help.  Finally, ALWAYS have the phone numbers of 2 good students who can be
called to check on assignments or to explain unclear instructions.

SUBJECT:
Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-21 14:34:56 EST
From:  ACTDS

Thank you Peggy and Mars, the advice is helpful.  This will be two days the
assistant has not been in.  The teacher has made some changes to the
assignment because of her absents.  We do have an agenda book, but my son
does not have the skills to jot down information of the bulletin board.  So,
I am needing someone to get the vocabulary to him and any other assignment so
he can do his homework.  I will try getting a student phone#.

SUBJECT:
Re:receiving services   Date:  97-10-21 15:35:32 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

How old is this child and how many different teachers does he/she have?  I
would suggest that there be a "assistant's sheet" which would describe the
assistant's responsibilities to a substitute.  In addition, isn't there a
case manager of some type who would be aware of assistant's absences and
assist in making sure kids don't get penalized for the absence of an adult?
The regular teachers should be able to help out on those few occasions where
an assistant is absent.  I would hope that the teachers are fully aware of
modifications and are not depending on a teaching assistant to fulfil all
needs.  I would hope that the assistant isn't absent very often.

SUBJECT:
Re:Ordering supplies    Date:  97-10-21 22:06:46 EST
From:  BURSTEIND

I am looking for anyone who might know of a toy catalog where a children's
playhouse can be ordered.  My school K-1 program can use something like a
Fisher Price dollhouse that would hold up to abuse and use.  Please e-mail
me. Thank you, Denise
bursteind

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-21 22:53:01 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello, you wrote:

< This will be two days the assistant has not been in. >

well you have the agenda and that means other children are using an agenda
also / so that leaves out having another child as a note taker using NCR
paper. So if I were in your shoes I would insist the teacher write the
homework down and provide a copy of the spelling words. I know the teacher
may be busy, but from my point of view your son needs this intervetion when
the assistant isn't their to help your son.

Take Care Barb

SUBJECT:  Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-22 23:53:50 EST
From:  ACTDS

Shelly and Mars I really appreciate your input.  Keep it coming, I don't feel
so alone when you respond.  I visited the school today to be with my son
during one class period.  I have been doing this once a week for three week
now.  He is a 7th grader with 8 periods. Three of those periods are
mainstreamed or inclusion with an assistant for each one ( as stated on the
IEP).  In one class in particular, where the assistant has been absent,  the
assistants have changed three times since the beginning of the school year.
I talk to his SPED coordinator, who stated she is over-whelmed by the
changes.  I believe she is understaff, but I don't feel that is my problem.
I am frustrated because I believe they are telling one thing and doing
another.  When I visit for this one class, an assistant is there. However
when I am not there, my son tells me there is not assistant.  In another
class, where there should be an assistant, the coordinator told me the
teacher felt it was not necessary (which I question because I thought all
decisions or changes were an IEP team effort).  We are getting a phone number
from a student and I like the idea of an assistant sheet.  A good friend told
me that she had to train the assistant inorder to get the support her child
needed.  It sounded like a good idea. I am still planning on visiting the
classroom, the teacher has welcomed me and asked me to return, but I do not
want to take the place of the assistant.  The teacher is excellent, he and I
have talked extensively about the modifications in the classroom.  I just
want some consistancy for my son and the assistant be aware of what my son's
needs are.  Am I on the right track?

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-23 07:13:56 EST
From:  Mars000210

Hello you wrote:

<   I just want some consistancy for my son and the assistant be aware of
what my son's needs are.  Am I on the right track? >

Sounds like you need a system that the teachers can deal with as well. Maybe
you should ask them what is easiest for all the teachers. would leaving his
agenda in the office on a desk near the teachers mail boxes help. When
stopping in to check their memo box they could just write down his homework
for him. Then at the end of the day before his last period someone be
assigned to give it to your son. Give them solutions tell them what you think
will work or not work ask for their input and go from there.

I think it is important that the assistant knows clearly what to do for your
child. You know your child best, but keep it professional. I spend a great
deal of my  time doing what the school should be providing according to the
IEP. I hedge on what is important vs. what makes my life easier vs. what is
best for my kid. If it is a chioice between what is best/ or easiest for
child and school I feel that I am the last in the chain. So yes this makes my
life less easy,but I have a happy child and teachers who are willing to
extend themselves on important issues.

Take care Barb

SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-23 22:39:33 EST
From:  ACTDS

Barb, I agree.  I want to set up a small meeting with the coordinator and the
assistant to identify the issues for my son.  At the present, they have given
him back another assistant, but have not notify me of why the new assistant.
I can accept that.  I have a meeting regarding his Speech and Language
therapy and after I get that setting,  I will then have more information to
pass along to the assistant and coordinator.  Maybe at the meeting with the
Speech and Language therapist I could ask for suggestion for the assistants.
Talking with you on the message board has been so helpful and thank you
again.



SUBJECT:  Re:Receiving Services   Date:  97-10-24 17:07:41 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

it's wonderful that the teacher is concerned and helpful.  Perhaps that
teacher can help create the "assistant's assistant" (a helpful sheet for the
assistant).  Actually, that would be a good idea even for the permanent
assistant.  This should be reviewed at agreed upon intervals.  I would
imagine that the role of the assistant might fluctuate during the year, or
for certain sections of the curriculum.  A written roadmap would be good for
all.  It should include a schedule, teacher's names, a contact person
(usually the case manager), and the essential (you can't live without them)
modifications.  If the assignment book is to be included, I would suggest a
sample page showing how this should be written for this student.  Keep the
sheet basic and to the point.  It should provide relief.  Most substitutes
don't like to flounder either.  Good luck to you.

SUBJECT:  Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-24 17:11:27 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I have an unusual case.  A preschooler (age 4) has nasal emission for the s
and z only.  He is unable to produce these sounds orally.  Nasal air is all
that comes out.  He produces all other sounds correctly...not problems with
velopharyngeal closure, except on the s and z.  I did a cursury oral
peripheral exam today.  I did not notice anything unusual (like a cleft
palate).  When asked to say "ah" the velum clearly rose, closing off the
nasal passage.  I'm leaning toward asking the parents to take him to an ENT
to see if there are any structural deals that I would not be able to detect.
Any ideas??? ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-24 18:10:05 EST
From:  Galiemla

I've had two students with the same errors.  After the ENT found no physical
reason, I worked at having the girls whistle through their teeth.  I know
this sounds crazy but it worked.  The tongue posturing is similar to 's'
production.  Without identifying the sound, the girls would 'play' with
moving their tongue back.  It was just a matter of tricking their oral
mechanism into working correctly.  Luckily, both girls had great auditory
discrimin so that when they heard their production  they could reproduce it
correctly.  Good luck!

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-25 19:19:51 EST
From:  LILMAX5267

You may also want to try using a SeeScape to reduce the child's nasal
emission using this visual cue.  I've found it helpful in the past.
                            Maxine (an SLP)

While I'm here, anyone from south of Boston going to the ASHA convention in
town?  Thought maybe it would be nice to carpool.

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-26 09:22:01 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

I am inclined to send this kiddo to an ENT for a check to be sure that there
are no physiological reasons for this lack of closure on the s, z.  However,
I also don't want to waste the parents money.  Would you all agree that the
ENT consult should take place before I begin work?  He is able to repeat
rapidly successive t sounds but when they begin to run together like an s he
immediately loses that closure and the nasal emission is back.  This child is
4 years old, in a preschool class, and will enter kindergarten next
fall.

SUBJECT:  SAra Rosenfeld-Johnson   Date:  97-10-26 09:38:11 EST
From:  MareCash

Anyone out there who has not attended one of Saara's conferences should! I
attended the first part of her treatment program this weekend in Albany Ny
and it was terrific! Her ideas are useful in all settings and I can't wait to
give them a try.Those of you with a background in Sensory Intergration
deficits and treatment will see how it all comes together. Last week I
attended a conference on Sensory Intergration adn now with the two therapies
together, the light has turned on. It all makes so much sense!

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal
emissions   Date:  97-10-26 13:22:27 EST
From:  Galiemla

I would definitely suggest an ENT to the parents.  I would be afraid of any
possible ramifications if there was a physiological cause. So many people
love to sue!

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-26 21:57:42 EST
From:  MLynne7923

Have you investigated the possibility of a submucous cleft palate.  A
possible beginning would check to see if there is a bifid uvula, or a high
palatal arch.  An ENT person would be helpful in r/o this consideration.
Good luck!

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-26 22:08:09 EST
From:  Bre5

I am curious as to what an ENT can tell you that would help with speech
therapy? My son was just sent to an ENT to check for the "velopharyngeal
closure" and he had to have a wire with a light on the end pushed into his
nose and down his throat, and then he had to say words. It wasn't much fun.
They didn't find anything wrong, and the test alone cost $340, plus the
doctor fee.

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-27 11:09:29 EST
From:  TAWhit

Bre5:

Actually - what the ENT tells you might mean that speech therapy will not
help at all. If we didn't get things ruled out by ENTs, we would do therapy
with some children endlessly because the problem is physical/physiologic and
can not be corrected with therapy.

Terrie

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-27 16:56:13 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Thank you all.  I have also spoken with a number of my colleagues and they
agree that an ENT would be a good idea, just to rule out physiological
problems.  I have thought about a submucous cleft.  However, this child has
closure on all sounds but the s and z.  No nasal emissions on any other
sounds...It seems to me that if there were a submucous cleft or the like,
there would be hypernasality at least on other sounds.  This is not the case.
My cursury oral periph did not reveal a bifid uvula.  Arching of the palate
seemed high to me but my references are probably not accurate.  Anyway, I'm
going to continue seeing this child for a few weeks informally so that I have
something substantial to send with the family to the ENT.

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal
emissions   Date:  97-10-27 20:37:37 EST
From:  Willsons

Shelley,
I don't have anything new to add. Just wanted to share that I had similar, if
not exact, concerns and feedback.
I have a student who has very nasal speech. He is 6 and has had therapy since
he was 4. There was nothing in his records to suggest the nasality had been
addressed. I consulted with another Speech Therapist. She said a submucous
cleft might be present. She did an oral exam with me, and we noted that his
soft palate moves, but only a little. She suggested I refer him to the Cleft
Palate Unit of a nearby University Health Center; the team includes a
dentist, plastic surgeon, speech therapist, among others. We concluded that I
need to know more about his physical status before I can continue with
therapy with confidence that my techniques might make a positive
difference.

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-27 21:30:06 EST
From:  MLynne7923

Is hearing within normal limits?  Recently been checked?

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal
emissions   Date:  97-10-27 21:36:57 EST
From:  MLynne7923

I'm sorry, I cut myself off.  Happens a lot.  But possibly with as much
background info that you can collect will help you solve this mystery. These
kinds of cases are a lot of fun to try to solve.  Listen to me, I sound like
Nancy Drew!.
Good luck.

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-28 06:31:46 EST
From:  Willsons

I wasn't sure if your suggestion was for me or Shelley, buy thank you for the
input My student is scheduled for a full audiological exam. We also have
looked at his medical records filed in the nurse's office to see if there is
a history of ear infections.
Maybe this comment belongs in the Nostalgia Folder, but its nice to hear from
someone who knows who Nancy Drew is. I've reached a point in my life where I
make certain references, and the kids respond with a blank stare . . . like
the student I told, "You're really growing. You must be eating your
Wheaties!:" The entire line of children just stared at me! :-)

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal
emissions   Date:  97-10-28 17:33:52 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Just a clarification on my little guy...his general vocal quality is
excellent.  The only nasal emissions are on s and z.  Very odd.  I tried the
whistling suggestion today.  He loved it and had a little success.  I'm going
to do five minute mini sessions with him every day for a couple of weeks and
see what happens.  If I start to see an improvement or ease of oral
production I'll feel a lot better.  If not...off to the ENT for a check.

SUBJECT:
Apraxia   Date:  97-10-28 18:09:13 EST
From:  JuneDay7

I have a 12 year old TMI student in the public schools who communicates
mainly in single word utterances.  He is almost unintelligible, and appears
apraxic.  His articulation is very inconsistent, and gets worse as syllables
are added.  Are there any programs you recommend for this student?  Any
suggestions?  Thanks.

SUBJECT:  nonverbal learning disabil`   Date:  97-10-28 19:15:19 EST
From:  Chawklit42

I am a speech path. working with a nonverbal child with corpus callosum
agenesis - anyone work with these kids before?  She is 2 year old -
hypotonic, nonverbal-presents with visual problems, seizures and feeding
problems...I would greatly appreciate any help. chawklit

SUBJECT:  Sara
Rosenfeld-Johnson   Date:  97-10-28 19:59:39 EST
From:  MareCash

If the person who emailed me concerning Sara's conference in Albany would
re-email me I would appreciate it.I mistakenly deleted your letter - before I
could respond!

SUBJECT:  Re:Nasal emissions   Date:  97-10-29 00:58:18 EST
From:  X52hmcx

I have worked with more than one client with nasal prduction of /s/ and /z/.
One child was a spanish speaker!!  Very fun!!  I had luck with trying to get
the "buzzing sound" to go in a straw.  It sounds crazy but it puts the focus
on air coming out of the mouth.  Both of the children I worked with were able
to correct the errors, but they were older than four.  The ENT consult would
cover you if there is anything wrong, but my guess is that there isn't just
from my experience.  Let us know what happens!!AOL looking for a
response

SUBJECT:  Re:Due Process-artic help   Date:  97-11-01 09:20:07 EST
From:  MaryCT33

Mys suggestion: Don't think for  a moment that they do not have to provide
appropriate services for your child.  If the school does not have the
resources they are legally obligated to pay for them inside the district at
another school, tutor or a private placement.  If the scores are showing a
severe disability and school won't own up tell them you do not agree with
recommendations, document this in your meeting with school (the new law
states if the dispute is not raised in what CT calls a PPT (Pupil, Placement
Team - states use different terms) you may not be eligble for reimbursement
on legal fees should you need to ever go to due process.  You are also
entitled to an outside evaluation at the public schools expense if you
disagree with their testing and the school is legally obligated to consider
the recommendations. You may just want to do this yourself and bring the
person who does the testing to your PPT as an advocate.

SUBJECT:  Re:picture
communication boa   Date:  97-11-03 17:45:34 EST
From:  Girafe58

Thanks tvail  I have those in my school.  They are really good!

SUBJECT:  Sara
Rosenfeld-Johnson   Date:  97-11-05 23:51:24 EST
From:  Beanie7783

I am interested in any books/curr. from Sara...Is she giving any workshops on
the west coast?   Please e-mail if any any info...Thank you..Beanie7783

SUBJECT:
Kinestetic methods   Date:  97-11-06 23:48:13 EST
From:  Jmg628

Is anyone aware of any kenestetic (sp?) programs or methods to teach the
comprehension of words, prepositions, antonyms and also to teach sequencing
such as: day, week, month, year? My son learns best with visual and
kinestetic (sp?) approaches, but our IEP team cannot come up with anything
for these two areas where he has problems.

Thanks.
Randee


SUBJECT:  S/L Message Boards   Date:  97-11-08 19:46:08 EST
From:  Roskzalex

I can no longer gain access to these boards.  I love to read them every day.
GenK told me that there is no Special Education Forum.  I have so much to
look up about so many subjects!  Does anybody know what is going on?
-Robyn

SUBJECT:  Re:S/L Message Boards   Date:  97-11-09 08:08:27 EST
From:  Ratatat

<I can no longer gain access to these boards.  I love to read them every day.
GenK told me that there is no Special Education Forum.  I have so much to
look up about so many subjects!  Does anybody know what is going on?>

Well, GenK is mistaken about the Special Education Forum.  You are in it, and
posting!  AOL is reorganizing it's "super structure" and have scrambled many
links to areas.  The Special Education Forum is the single most active set of
MBs in the section of AOL where we "reside."  There is no worry about AOL
taking us down.

What exactly are you looking for and not finding?  Maybe I can help you.

Ratatat, Host - Special Education Forum

SUBJECT:  Re:S/L Message Boards   Date:  97-11-09 11:46:11 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Ratatat,
The reorganization of the message board affected the Gifted Forum (in a big
way).  I believe GenK was one of the folks who looked after that forum.  The
Gifted Forum (formerly keyword:gifted), is no longer in existence as it was.
It is now a message board which is part of Moms Online.  It is not nearly as
comprehensive, easy to gain access to, or find.  Perhaps this is what the
previous postee was referring to. ShelleyHL

SUBJECT:  Re:S/L Message Boards   Date:  97-11-09 23:09:23 EST
From:  Val0706

Ratatat,

As you probably know, the first screen when you come into the Special Ed
boards has a message very similar to the one on the Giftedness Forum (as of
10/15/97, you will find ... at the new Keyword Families).  After the "After
10/15 go to MomsOnLine" had been there for awhile at the Giftedness Forum,
all the categories on the board disappeared -- as you know!  So, since you're
the host here you know more than the rest of us, but is this "as of 10/15"
message less ominous than the other one?

It's a good thing I'm not paranoid, or I'd take this personally -- after all,
the boards I read most faithfully (i.e., daily) have been giftedness and
special ed.  Are they wiping out *everyone's* favorite board or is it just
me???

Valerie



SUBJECT:  Earobics   Date:  97-11-10 18:23:15 EST
From:  Barlynn

Has anyone used the Earobics program?  I visited the FAQ section at their
website and read that once you plug in a child's name (to track progress), it
cannot be changed.  Does this mean that the CD ROM has to be replaced for
every 25 children (or 2 children if the home program is used)?
Is it possible to use the program and not plug in a child's name? I E-mailed
these questions to cogcon.com, but my mail was returned.  For some reason
they were unable to answer E-mail.  I would appreciate any information anyone
has.  Thanks!!!!!!!

SUBJECT:  Re:S/L Message Boards   Date:  97-11-11 15:06:48 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Actually, I have not seen the message you describe (as of 10-15, etc) when I
sign on to this set of message boards.  I come through Key word:  teachers'
lounge.  Would that make a difference?  Is there a better board to post these
questions than the speech/language board?  I too am curious about that Gifted
Forum.  It no longer exists.

SUBJECT:  New strategies stuttering?   Date:  97-11-12 17:15:46 EST
From:  CATTLUV

I have been providing speech therapy to a 20 year old bilingual High School
student who has been a severe stutterer. He is having difficulty with
consistent use of technique, self-monitoring and carry-over.  We have
utilized the following techniques as fluency shaping devices during tasks of
increasing cognitive-linguistic complexity: easy onset/gentle voice
initiation, continuous phonation/light contacts and airflow. We have
incorporated visual and auditory feedback through use of the "speechmaster"
and a portable DAF device. We have included voluntary stuttering, block
corrections, audio and videotaping to increase self-awareness of stuttering.
We have worked on psychological factors via roleplaying visualization,
affirmation, relaxation, counseling, preparatory mental sets, identifying
stress factors, journals, time contracts,ets..  There are a number of other
approaches I will be using to maximize his consistent and correct use of
technique.  However, since he graduates in June,  I would like to provide him
with the most time-effective strategies available.  If anyone has a new
strategy/technological advance that they've found to be particularly
effective. please let me know.  Also  does  anyone know  of the new
Schwartz devices for feedback and carry-over?  Please e-mail me at
[e-mail].

SUBJECT:  Re:Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson   Date:  97-11-14 01:10:25 EST
From:  OromotorSP

You can always check my website for upcoming conferences:
members.aol.com/oromotorsp/index.htm.     Thanks for your interest in my
work....
Sara Rosenfeld-Johnson

SUBJECT:  Asha   Date:  97-11-17 20:40:21 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

So...will any of you be at the ASHA conference in Boston?

SUBJECT:  Re:Asha   Date:  97-11-18 15:25:36 EST
From:  WVV Hiker

Yes!  Several of us from the Nashua NH school sytem are going :)

SUBJECT:
articulation: /s/ and /z/   Date:  97-11-24 19:20:01 EST
From:  DeniseColo

I have just started working with a 3rd grader who has trouble producing /s/
and /z/.  She says them on inhalation.  These are the only sounds she does
that on.  I have tried getting her to say /s/ in isolation on exhalation, but
have not had any success.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks,
DeniseColo

SUBJECT:  Re:articulation: /s/ and /z/   Date:  97-11-24 20:34:09 EST
From:  ShelleyHL

Try whistling between the teeth.  You could also have her do the "t" sound
rapidly in succession.